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Poetry, it's in the brain


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#1 TheGreenOne

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:09 PM

Implicit Detection of Poetic Harmony by the Naïve Brain

shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#2 Bognoz

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 11:55 PM

Alls I got was something about

consonantal sequences in Welsh.

 

Is this something about 5H?


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#3 TheGreenOne

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:34 AM

That's a naïve question.


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#4 Bognoz

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 08:23 AM

From a brut outsider.


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#5 artemis

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 10:02 AM

Far too many words.  I didn't make it past the first paragraph.

 

These results show for the first time that before we even consider literal meaning, the musical properties of poetry speak to the human mind in ways that escape consciousness.

 

Stupid sentence. First time, my ass.  What does "show" mean?    I guess, a demonstration using scientific method (such as it's considered to be) of what was always obvious?  And of course, it doesn't escape consciousness.  I'm conscious of lots of things I don't understand.  I may not be able to bring logic to bear on them (nor does it seem necessary), but if it escapes consciousness, doesn't that mean I'm not conscious of them at all?  Even as a child, I was conscious of the fact that alliteration induces pleasure.  Ditto rhythm.  And as I understand it, that's what this is about - Welsh or some other language, it doesn't matter.  Even people with no musical training feel the difference between a consonant note and a dissonant note.

 

She swept away her rancid poncho

and laid out naked by the door

We did it till we were unconcho

and it was useless any more

 

Substitute "further" for "more" and see what happens.  Okay, that's rhyme, not alliteration.

 

How about "could ever dissever my soul from the soul of the beautiful Annabelle Lee"?  Put "separate" in the place of "dissever", and it goes down like a lead zeppelin.


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#6 jaded prol

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 05:45 AM

Maybe the greatest American poet after Whitman defining poetry

 

 https://youtu.be/ABDUGe2kGNs

 

 

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube....bed/ABDUGe2kGNs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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#7 Kirk

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:44 AM

I've always liked the poetry that does not rhyme.


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#8 artemis

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:57 AM

Maybe the greatest American poet after Whitman

 

Why was he after Whitman?  To break his fingers, get him to stop writing that crap?

 

I remember Prince commenting about some singer: "You have to stop that.  NOW!"  Whitman's mamma should have put the same kibosh on him.


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#9 TheGreenOne

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 08:05 AM

And the poets down here don't write nothing at all
They just stand back and let it all be


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#10 Bognoz

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 08:24 AM

But now it seems the bubble's burst
Although you know there was a time
When love songs gathered in my head
With poetry in every line


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#11 TheGreenOne

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 12:44 PM

Bukowskiquotescopy1-190ydx5.jpg


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#12 artemis

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 10:42 AM

Woke up this morning and it seemed to me,
that every night turns out to be
A little more like Bukowski.
And yeah, I know he's a pretty good read.
But God who'd wanna be?
God who'd wanna be such an asshole?

 

Modest Mouse - Bukowski

 

I don't think I had ever heard of Bukowski until I heard that song, so I don't know.  But Whitman, they made me read in school, early on too, elementary school I'm sure.  I remember thinking that if this is poetry I can do without it.  Couldn't remember why it didn't do anything for me, other than a vague idea that it was, I don't know, too political, or something.  Prol's post actually surprised me, so I looked it up and found Bukowski's name on one or two worst poet lists.  And Whitman was mentioned more than once - somebody said about him "self-aggrandizing".  I read that he published a book and some famous poet responded, told him he (Whitman) was hot shit. Whitman took it seriously and proceeded to publish much drivel after that.  Again, I don't know and I'm not trying to be insulting - if you like it you like it, but better than Robert Frost?  R U Sirius?  They also made me read Robert Frost in school, and THAT made me understand that poetry had much to offer.  It wasn't till my abortive attempt at college that I was introduced to Richard Brautigan, and that blew the doors off.  I saw Richard on the street in Carmel, California in 1973 or so.  He was wearing a Hoss Cartwright hat and a fringy buckskin jacket, and had a hippie chick on his arm.  I dared not approach him for fear of being considered a groupie or the like.

 

Rhyme is not essential for poetry, for sure.  Any poem in another language isn't going to rhyme in English even if it did before, unless you force it, and then it usually stinks.  Never saw a rhyming haiku.

 

An old temple

a baking pan

rusting in the parsley - Yosa Buson

 

The Japanese have a phrase - "mono no aware" (a wa ray) that represents what so many haiku do for me.  All the best pomes run on such fumes.


You might be surprised how well old goat sausages are able to stand up to the heat.

#13 Bognoz

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:46 AM

Frost? Fucker's burnt™.

 

Shouldn't stopped

by the roadside

on that snowy night.


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#14 Bognoz

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:49 AM

Puke-off-sky?

 

Been there. Done that.

Nothin poetical.


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#15 Bognoz

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:51 AM

Brautigan?

 

His line hooked Whitman

and reeled it in.

 

Reely.


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#16 artemis

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:15 PM

As a child when did I first hear about trout fishing in America? From whom? I guess it was a stepfather of mine. Summer of 1942. The old drunk told me about troutfishing. When he could talk, he had a way of describing trout as if they were a precious and intelligent metal. Silver is not a good adjective to describe what I felt when he told me about trout fishing. I'd like to get it right.
Maybe trout steel. Steel made from trout. The clear snow-filled river acting as foundry and heat.
Imagine Pittsburgh.
A steel that comes from trout, used to make buildings, trains and tunnels. The Andrew Carnegie of Trout!
The Reply of Trout Fishing in America: I remember with particular amusement, people with three-cornered hats fishing in the dawn.

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#17 artemis

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:27 PM

A HALF-SUNDAY HOMAGE TO A WHOLE LEONARDO DA VINCI

On this funky winter day in rainy San Francisco I've had a vision of Leonardo da Vinci. My woman's out slaving away,no day off, working on Sunday. She left here at eight o'clock this morning for Powell and California. I've been sitting here ever since like a toad on a log dreaming about Leonardo da Vinci.
I dreamt he was on the South Bend Tackle Company payroll, but of course, he was wearing different clothes and speaking with a different accent and possessor of a different childhood, perhaps an American childhood spent in a town like Lordsburg, New Mexico, or Winchester, Virginia.
I saw him inventing a new spinning lure for trout fishing in America. I saw him first of all working with his imagination, then with metal and color and hooks, trying a little of this and a little of that, and then adding motion and then taking it away and then coming back again with a different motion, and in the end the lure was invented.
He called his bosses in. They looked at the lure and all fainted. Alone, standing over their bodies, he held the lure in his hand and gave it a name. He called it "The Last Supper."
Then he went about waking up his bosses.
In a matter of months that trout fishing lure was the sensation of the twentieth century, far outstripping such shallow accomplishments as Hiroshima or Mahatma Gandhi. Millions of "The Last Supper" were sold in America. The Vatican ordered ten thousand and they didn't even have any trout there.
Testimonials poured in. Thirty-four ex-presidents of the United States all said, ''I caught my limit on 'The Last Supper'."


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#18 Bognoz

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 03:36 AM

Ars Poetica?

 

I have always aspired to a more spacious form
that would be free from the claims of poetry or prose
and would let us understand each other without exposing
the author or reader to sublime agonies.

In the very essence of poetry there is something indecent:
a thing is brought forth which we didn't know we had in us,
so we blink our eyes, as if a tiger had sprung out
and stood in the light, lashing his tail.

That's why poetry is rightly said to be dictated by a daimonion,
though its an exaggeration to maintain that he must be an angel.
It's hard to guess where that pride of poets comes from,
when so often they're put to shame by the disclosure of their frailty.

What reasonable man would like to be a city of demons,
who behave as if they were at home, speak in many tongues,
and who, not satisfied with stealing his lips or hand,
work at changing his destiny for their convenience?

It's true that what is morbid is highly valued today,
and so you may think that I am only joking
or that I've devised just one more means
of praising Art with thehelp of irony.

There was a time when only wise books were read
helping us to bear our pain and misery.
This, after all, is not quite the same
as leafing through a thousand works fresh from psychiatric clinics.

And yet the world is different from what it seems to be
and we are other than how we see ourselves in our ravings.
People therefore preserve silent integrity
thus earning the respect of their relatives and neighbors.

The purpose of poetry is to remind us
how difficult it is to remain just one person,
for our house is open, there are no keys in the doors,
and invisible guests come in and out at will.

What I'm saying here is not, I agree, poetry,
as poems should be written rarely and reluctantly,
under unbearable duress and only with the hope
that good spirits, not evil ones, choose us for their instrument.

Czeslaw Milosz


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#19 Kirk

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:21 AM

Bravo


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#20 TheGreenOne

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 09:13 AM

Poetry has the same goal as science but put pursues it via different means.


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#21 artemis

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 11:40 AM

We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon

Our method is science

Our aim is religion

 

Uncle Al

 

as if a tiger had sprung out and stood in the light, lashing his tail

 

I would like to impose the smiley face of open-mouth appreciation, but this broke-dick forum won't allow it.

 

WHY SCIENTISTS LOVE FRANK ZAPPA AND HOW WE KNOW
E.E. CUMMINGS WAS A PHYSICIST AND WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS A PHYSICIAN
AND EMILY DICKINSON WAS A SCIENTIST and other news we need to live in
happy-ness and hoppy-ness and not “die miserably every day”

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#22 Bognoz

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:50 PM


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#23 TheGreenOne

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:12 PM


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#24 jaded prol

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:16 PM

You don't say.


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#25 Bognoz

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:50 AM

Secret dekoder ring

not included.


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#26 Bognoz

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:51 AM

Oskar Pastior


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#27 Bognoz

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 08:36 AM

          Grace

 

I thought I'd been leading a life
of mild grace,
but as we walked 
it passed me
by and began to strain
at the bristling ropes
and got out well
ahead of me, half dragging
my thickened
heel-heavy gait
across the muddy fields.

 

All that open space
seemed to call out to its hooves
like the taut skin
on a quiet drum.

 

I wrapped the cord
around both hands,
and watched the rough hemp
begin to saw
a glistening rawness
into its shoulders.

 

My hands, too,
were cut and weeping.

 

Steam smoked from its
body like a coal
and then I heard
it, the gun-
shot crack of something
splintering,
so I let
my life

 

go—

 

 

-- Michael Bazzett


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#28 Kirk

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 06:12 PM

Don't tempt me


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#29 Bognoz

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 08:02 PM

To lead a life

of mild grace?


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#30 Bognoz

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 08:04 PM

I wood never tempt you to do that.

That's the reason ex-wives exist.


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#31 Kirk

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:46 AM

Mild grace, no

Let go you know, keep it real according to me.

See? I can't even say it without a qualifier so chances of doing it again are nil

I went from feeling it to fillin it in about 2.2


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#32 artemis

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:51 PM

I have no idea what that poem is about.

Did somebody shoot him?

Shoot the animal his "grace" had become?

Did he shoot himself?

Did his life "get away" from him?

If so, letting go might have been the best thing to do, and so it's a happy poem, right?

 

Hail Mary, full of grace.

I remember being embarrassed by that, probably before I could read, which was at age five or less.

Seemed like a clean lady; how did she get covered in something that must be a sort of gravy or, what?


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#33 Bognoz

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:43 PM

When I first read that poem it made me

jump out of my goose-pebbled flesh.

A pure visceral reaction that made me

immediately need to return and reread

and then to share it with my friends.


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#34 Bognoz

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:48 PM

As I've continued to reread it here

and there it's begun to unravel a

little bit, and to re-knit differently

bit by bit, a moving target a little

bit tenderness and also a little

bit knotted and unclear. I continue

to be viscerally moved by it

and too in the mind more and more.


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#35 Bognoz

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:51 PM

There ain't no art if you don't

live it. Both are like that river

that you can't step in again

even once. What's current

is gone and then there's this.


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#36 Kirk

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:21 AM

I see this as a metaphor for running stairs without looking at your feet,

reining in the beast, so you don't fall victim to the curiosity mild grace has for everything.


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#37 Kirk

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:24 AM

I disagree about art being like a river,  the time you put into a piece is still there, for you, for me, it's why I do it, my time is literally still there,  to see or grapple with.


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#38 TheGreenOne

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 08:22 AM

TWO GENTLEMEN who were in the lavatory at the time tried to lift him
up: but he was quite helpless. He lay curled up at the foot of the
stairs down which he had fallen. They succeeded in turning him over. His
hat had rolled a few yards away and his clothes were smeared with the
filth and ooze of the floor on which he had lain, face downwards. His
eyes were closed and he breathed with a grunting noise. A thin stream of
blood trickled from the corner of his mouth.

 

These two gentlemen and one of the curates carried him up the stairs
and laid him down again on the floor of the bar. In two minutes he was
surrounded by a ring of men. The manager of the bar asked everyone who
he was and who was with him. No one knew who he was but one of the
curates said he had served the gentleman with a small rum....


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#39 Kirk

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:50 PM

Job 9:25
Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.


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#40 artemis

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:59 AM

viscerally moved by it

 

I wouldn't go that far but yeah, something like that for sure.  Almost disturbing, the contrast between (dumbass?) happiness and the rope removing skin from your hands.


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#41 Kirk

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:26 AM

Grace gets skinned


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#42 Bognoz

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:32 PM

tethered internal dissonance


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#43 Bognoz

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:33 PM

Not as well developed

not by a wide spread

but I saw parallels.


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unless you prepare a great hot chocolate.

#44 artemis

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 07:35 AM

Grace gets skinned

 

Put that title on it and there's almost no need to read the rest.  Most excellent summation.

 

I was thinking about "visceral" yesterday - it seemed too literal; I have never actually felt anything in my gut (I mean, other than diarrhea and all), that I can remember.  But then I realized it's all in the brain anyway.  Felt kind of stupid about the discovery.  So yeah, visceral.

 

I did this thinking on the way to and from the endodontist.  He has good magazines, but I remain disturbed by an article in the Smithsonian.  The snowy owls are disappearing.  It's well known that they increase and decrease in cycles, tied to the lemming population.  But this seems to be different - the numbers are staggering - the decrease in population since only a few years ago.  Now this is compelling; it speaks to me as the jellied gasoline of the Esquimaux did not.  I waited more than 50 years to see one of those white owls, and when I finally did, he was dead on a curve on a snowy highway in Minnesota.  I retrieved him and laid him to rest in a more suitable spot, in the woods nearby.  Not a snowmobile to be heard, just the snowflakes hitting the leaves.

 

As to the tariffs, that stinks, and I can't imagine what the taxation goal is, but taxes are part of the cost of doing bidness, right?  Can you just raise the price accordingly, explain it, and proceed as usual?  What are the customers going to do, go to a domestic source?  Mr. Grim is involved in a project that may require those goods eventually, btw.  Prolly you should call him.

 

Nice website Tibro - I'll have to get better acquainted with it later.


You might be surprised how well old goat sausages are able to stand up to the heat.

#45 Kirk

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:36 AM

I have to move forward with the deal as it is and eat the tariff, the good thing is my buyers got a great deal, I can't very well change that without being a jerk. Going into the future I can price it accordingly.

Occasionally I feel like I want to say something, not often and mostly I ignore the urge, if the same thing keeps coming back to my brain I might say it but not write it down, if I keep repeating it and can't leave it I might write it down but that involves faith which is in short supply. After awhile you get tired of watching what you say play out and it all seems like a fruitless game.

Grim and I are in contact and it looks like he is finally going to get a good absinthe on the market, he is also sharing subtle details with other distillers and I expect the entire industry to raise the bar a little to meet his lofty aesthetics.


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#46 TheGreenOne

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:42 AM

I have been anthologized in The Return of Král Majáles.

 

I ordered that back when you first mentioned it, read it cover to cover. Now I'll have to go back and see which you poem you wrote and whether I remember. it. Being remembered is the best quality test I know.


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

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#47 TheGreenOne

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:44 AM

I think I may have some old Grimsinthe somewhere. I should probably see how it's holding up.


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#48 Bognoz

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:10 AM

Best to make one's way clear around

A Tale of Flodden Field, the entanglements

aren't worth the words they're made of.

That is to say, I believe in not saying anything.


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#49 Bognoz

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:15 AM

Although I'd be interested to meat

that Grimplestillsitter some day.

Not enough to plan a date by way

of social inter-media-ry, say, butt

curious enough to raise a drink together.


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#50 Bognoz

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:16 AM

And then blackout and frgtabtit.


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#51 TheGreenOne

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:21 AM

I believe in not saying anything.

 

giphy.gif


shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#52 Bognoz

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:40 AM

Hey, c'mon, you know how it is:

the spirits are flowing and the tongue

is the hardest muscle to silence


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#53 Bognoz

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:41 AM

Do as I say

knot as I dew.


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#54 Bognoz

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:44 AM

Anna size that

ewe poost one

fookin' gif anna

yule bee plagued

by gestures forever.


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#55 Bognoz

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:46 AM

tenor.gif?itemid=4687848


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#56 Kirk

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:36 AM

Stayed home 2 days in a row to take delivery now France is telling me my shipment is held up by a customs backlog. . . of approximately 1 month


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