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Poll: Commercial (CO) & HG

Commercial (CO) & HG

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#1 Justin

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:26 AM

First off, I am NOT trying to start any flame wars or denigrate anyone's efforts, since we have both home and commercial distillers on the boards. I respect the efforts of both groups.

That said, there are differences between the two, in both production and delivery, due to the legal issues.

What are your thoughts on how things will play out of the next couple/few years?

Please, let's not get into the "mine is better than yours" debate. That is for another thread.

Thanks!

#2 TheGreenOne

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:28 AM

You left out one option. Improved CO offerings will increase public appreciation of absinthe leading to increased demand for HG.

shuck and jive is an important skill

 

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#3 Guest_Louched Liver_*

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:34 AM

I'll drink too much.

#4 Justin

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:36 AM

TheGreenOne,

Yeah, could be a possibility. But I can't think of everything. :yes:

#5 Kirk

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:42 AM

As knowledge and consumption of fine absinthe increases
more growers will grow the quality of herbs needed.
As more growers emerge
the fine herbs may become more affordable
for the commercial distillers.
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#6 Guest_Louched Liver_*

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:47 AM

Or not.

#7 Absinthe_1900

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:56 AM

Everything changes sooner or later.
Remember, an armed TXLF is a polite TXLF

#8 Justin

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:57 AM

Most things change sooner or later. But, sooner OR later?

Entropy is forever.

#9 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:12 AM

so is ugly.
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#10 TheGreenOne

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:16 AM

But I can't think of everything


It was still a good question.

shuck and jive is an important skill

 

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#11 Justin

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:18 AM

Or a good still question...

#12 Le Gimp

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:28 AM

I don't expect to see much change in the near term. That is up to 5 years. In 5 to 10 years I expect to see it legalized again. I expect a challenge to be made that T-Bonz is similar to THC. This will be followed by a rebuttal that it does not effect the same receptor, etc. EU approval will be the big stick to allow it back in.

But. It will take a champion in Congress to get the FDA overruled. There-in lies the problem that I see. It is not an act of congress that makes it illegal. It is a FDA statute that is not likely to change unless congress pushes them.
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#13 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:30 AM

who the fuck are you and what have you done with our spuck?!?!??!
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#14 Le Gimp

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:40 AM

Sorry. I was tea totteling (spell check couldn't figure it out either) while out of town. I only had one beer all weekend (Stoned IPA).

I'll be back to normal once I get my alcohol level back on level.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

#15 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:43 AM

:clap:


intelligent posts like your last one leave me dry.


jeebus.

even kirk was making a bit of sense earlier.

this place is going to shite.

Edited by Celticgent, 27 April 2004 - 08:50 AM.

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#16 TheGreenOne

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:44 AM

There may be a potential non-Congressional route to overturning the FDA ban. There is a little known law called the Data Quality Act that sets standards for the quality of most federally-disseminated information. The law and allows the "affected" public to seek and obtain correction of information not meeting DQ standards. It may be theoretically possible to mount a DQ challenge to specific FDA statements on T-Jone.

shuck and jive is an important skill

 

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#17 Masque

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:51 AM

Sorry. I was tea totteling

How about "not drinking."

(Off the top of my head, I can't spell it either. Teetotalling?)

What should we do for the future? Oh, I don't know. Drive around, have fun, a few kids and we can figure out the future after HOLY SHIT I'M 38 YEARS OLD 


#18 Absomphe

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 10:43 AM

Give that man a temperance badge! :tits-up:
To the bar, for flaming Hills enemas!

#19 Off. Jack Batemaster

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:24 AM

...meeting DQ standards.  It may be theoretically possible to mount a DQ challenge...

What's his fuck has no standards. Just meet him behind the DQ.
The more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap changes, the more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap tastes like Black Lickerish.

Where the fuck is ATown?

#20 Justin

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:35 AM

"Mounting" a DQ challenge.

It all makes sense now.

Remind me never to go to Dairy Queen again.

#21 Hiram

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:46 AM

There is a little known law called the Data Quality Act that sets standards for the quality of most federally-disseminated information.  The law and allows the "affected" public to seek and obtain correction of information not meeting DQ standards.

This is the single most encouraging bit of info I've ever read on this topic.


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#22 Off. Jack Batemaster

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:46 AM

So here's what's going to happen:

Some online vendor is going to sell to someone under 21 and something bad is going to happen. I'm not just talking about Absinthe/Filterated Czeckerland Xit, but it could be. Some kid is going to do something stupid and kill himself/herself or others. More and more shipments of alcohol will be seized.

Or:

The Czeckerland/German Tujohns hype is going to get mentioned when some American idiot drinks too much of it. They purchased this order online. They are going to kill themselves and/or others. More and more shipments of alcohol will be seized.
The more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap changes, the more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap tastes like Black Lickerish.

Where the fuck is ATown?

#23 Louchelooker

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:55 AM

Awww, people (including kids, people under 21) have been killing themselves with perfectly legalized alcohol for ages. Adding another alcohol to the mix isn't going to make a difference there.

Edited by Louchelooker, 27 April 2004 - 11:57 AM.

"Yes," said the girl. "Everything tastes of licorice. Especially all the things you've waited so long for, like absinthe." E.H.

#24 Kirk

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:00 PM

Or , ... how about ,
the Jack boots get so good at collecting and collating information
That they succeed in making us
pay dearly
for
our
every
desire.
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#25 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:00 PM

Awww, people (including kids, people under 21) have been killing themselves with perfectly legalized alcohol for ages. Adding another alcohol to the mix isn't going to make a difference there.

hey, jerkoff, how was absinthe originally banned?

some idiot getting drunk and doing stupid xit.


did it matter that the absinthe had nothing to do with it?

no.


Jackie O's right on.

Edited by Celticgent, 27 April 2004 - 12:01 PM.

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#26 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:02 PM

oh, and this word censor that makes shi t turn into xit is really fucking annoying.
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#27 Kirk

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:05 PM

You need a drink my Friend.

Edited by Kirk, 27 April 2004 - 12:12 PM.

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#28 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:06 PM

i need many.
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#29 Louchelooker

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:07 PM

I thought it got banned because the wine makers capitalized on one fool's drunken rampage (I thought the fool was drinking more than just absinthe that day) so they could sell more wine. I didn't think it had anything to do with absinthe itself besides the fact that the absinthe market was killing the wine market. Besides, people kill themselves or others drinking all types of alcohol. That's all I was saying. Absinthe is just one more type of alcohol that people could kill themselves with. I could be wrong though. I'm sure you'll tell me if I am. Thank you in advance for insulting me again. :)
"Yes," said the girl. "Everything tastes of licorice. Especially all the things you've waited so long for, like absinthe." E.H.

#30 lambchop

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:10 PM

Jackie O's right on.

Right on!

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#31 Absomphe

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:12 PM

Kirk:

Needing a drink seems to be your ultimate answer for anything.

Not that I'm sayin' it's a BAD answer.
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#32 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:13 PM

I didn't think it had anything to do with absinthe itself

that's the point, jizzbomb!!!!!!!

some assclown will order absinthe, drink a bottle, die, and the government will blame the death on it being Filterated Czeckerland Xit(most likely missing the e) and not on the fact that the retard drank a full bottle of 50-70% alcohol.

and then the witch-hunt will begin.

do we need to draw you fucking pictures for you to keep up?
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#33 Louchelooker

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:20 PM

Jizzbomb! That's a new one.

So how come they don't do witch hunts for all of the other alcohols that people kill themselves with. There are plenty of 50-70% alcohols out there that they could blame for senseless deaths and then they would have to take them all off the shelves.

And yes, pictures, charts and graphs would be nice.
"Yes," said the girl. "Everything tastes of licorice. Especially all the things you've waited so long for, like absinthe." E.H.

#34 Kirk

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:23 PM

Kirk:

Needing a drink seems to be your ultimate answer for anything.

Not that I'm sayin' it's a BAD answer.

Says the man who has drank more drinks
than I have created things.
I need nothing.
I am.
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#35 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:25 PM

:vale:



much like algae & moss, this fuckstick kirk is growing on me.
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#36 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:27 PM

So how come they don't do witch hunts for all of the other alcohols that people kill themselves with.

um, were not talking about anything LOGICAL, just what the government will do.

what grade are you in?
the fresh maker

#37 Louchelooker

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:34 PM

They don't have grades at my school. Plus, I forgot that we were talking about the government and how illogical "THEY" are.

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"Yes," said the girl. "Everything tastes of licorice. Especially all the things you've waited so long for, like absinthe." E.H.

#38 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:40 PM

grate.
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#39 Louchelooker

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:41 PM

Aw, you say that every time Special Ed comes out.
"Yes," said the girl. "Everything tastes of licorice. Especially all the things you've waited so long for, like absinthe." E.H.

#40 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:47 PM

no.

i think special ed is funny.

unlike you.
the fresh maker

#41 Off. Jack Batemaster

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 12:58 PM

The fact is, you don't have to be 21 to order liquor online. Some kid is going to order liquor (it DOESN'T have to be Absinthe/Filterated Czeckerland Xit) online...get into some sort of trouble and end up on the news.

I doubt the general public is even aware that you can order liquor overseas through the internet, and it doesn't appear that the online vendors are seriously checking the buyer's age.
The more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap changes, the more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap tastes like Black Lickerish.

Where the fuck is ATown?

#42 TheGreenOne

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 01:06 PM

A little responsibility goes a long way. Idiocy, on the other hand, never stops.

shuck and jive is an important skill

 

I cannot play music on an infinite keyboard.


#43 CelticGent

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 01:07 PM

well, sometimes. like when i have to leave for the day. :LDC:
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#44 lambchop

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 01:23 PM

Yeah, me too :LDC:
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#45 Absomphe

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 01:52 PM

Kirk:

You need nothing.

You are.

Now I remember

Why I'm

An Atheist. :LDC:
To the bar, for flaming Hills enemas!

#46 jaded prol

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 02:34 PM

CG and Jack are right. Unfortunately no politician is going to do anything to lift the ban because it would be BAD POLITICS. Instead the ban will either just disappear or there will be a scare campaign and witch hunt (the most likely scenario) because of some stupid kid shooting up a school and having some Czeckerland swill in his possession.

I think it will also become very difficult to obtain A.A. at some point so it's good to keep stocked up and maybe even to start planting it all over so it becomes a common "weed" and thus impossible to ban.

In the meantime, I still say it's best to keep a low profile and enjoy the bounty of HG's and Co's that there are. After that, maybe moving to a more civilized country would be good.
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#47 Le Gimp

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 04:34 PM

It already is a weed in a great deal of the midwest from what I have been told.
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#48 perruche_verte

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 05:36 PM

:ROLL:

Try looking near old abandoned railroad tracks. It seems to like open ground and full sun. You should be doing this anyway (or growing your own) if you want to get it at just the right time.

#49 Nepenthes

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 05:51 PM

It's not like other common weeds aren't banned as illegal drugs in this county.

#50 Wolfgang

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:04 PM

I mostly agree with Jack.

Some stupid kid will do something really stupid involving absinthe and some wise journalist will capitalise on the myth to sell his story. Will it really change anything in the long run? I doubt.


If absinthe really becomes popular before the ban is lifted, I also expect some backstabing amongst competitors and all kind of ugly things related to competition in an unruled market.


Humans are bad and evil and can't just let the average man enjoy his daily glass of absinthe !


How to avoid this risk ? Close all absinthe related forums and make sure no other will open ? Keep all the absinthe for a chosen secret elite ? That would be sad, unjust for newbees, bad for the business and impossible to do anyway.

There's nothing we can do about it but hope for the best, except maybe keep trying to educate people.

#51 Crosby

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:06 PM

Humans are bad and evil and can't just let the average man enjoy his daily glass of absinthe !

That's what I always say about Canadians.
C'est ma santé

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#52 gasspectro

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 07:11 PM

There's nothing we can do about it but hope for the best, except maybe keep trying to educate people.

Kinda like what was being done at ABG? :ROLL:

Edited by gasspectro, 27 April 2004 - 07:13 PM.

Say something clever and memorable, or say something outrageous. And unfortunately, it's a lot easier to be outrageous than clever and memorable

#53 DrinkSlinger

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 08:27 PM

Kinda... but not really.
for some people, there's money in absinthe. And for some, there's only absinthe in absinthe.
.

#54 Masque

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 10:41 PM

The laws on absinthe will not change until the government can make money off of it. End of story... any thoughts of how that could be done, except for trying to bring as many noobs into the fold as possible, to make demand?

What should we do for the future? Oh, I don't know. Drive around, have fun, a few kids and we can figure out the future after HOLY SHIT I'M 38 YEARS OLD 


#55 TrainerAZ

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Posted 27 April 2004 - 11:57 PM

1. Jizzbomb . . . is that something new from DQ? Only available thru the back door?


2. Remember about 6 months or so ago, some dimwit in the UK died after rapidly doing 9 shots of some-absinthe-or-other? (The equivalent of about 18 shots of vodka, a helluva lot!) He died of alcohol poisoning, which is what the coroner said, but his family kept insisting it was that horrible evil toxic ABSINTHE that did it. Nothing to do with him being a moron who drank too much, and his father was trying to challenge the death certificate. Probably wanted to sue the distiller and make money off his kid's death.

I've little doubt the same will happen here. It's happened with Everclear, but had no effect on sales (in AZ, anyway). Whether such an event becomes the turning point for the re-demonization of absinthe or not will largely depend upon how we handle it, and what groundwork we have laid before it happens.


3. It's possible to submit a petition to the FDA, following a prescribed format, and backed up with all the necessary science. It's a big deal, and probably won't be cheap to get all the research together (like showing how much t-jone there is in a serving of Stove Top (sage) vs. a glass of UE68). It's definitely not something to do half-assed.

Another challenge possibility is tarragon. All Artemisias are regulated, to have no detectable t-jone in the finished product. Tarragon is an Artemisia, and a prime source for t-jone oil. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that products containing tarragon contain t-jone.

Proving this, and the levels present, and the lack of a correlation between mass murders and a preference for Stove Top instead of potatoes, could be enough to turn the tables.

Meanwhile, once a petition has been submitted, the public is able to comment upon it.

Logical approach? Perhaps (my speculation here) a campaign of absinthe-educated people getting accurate articles into those "alternative" papers; then, once there are a significant number of properly-informed articles published, shooting for the mainstream papers or magazines, while at the same time a petition is prepared for submittal.

After the petition is submitted, an organized letter-writing campaign, both in the form of letters of support to the FDA (including us as individuals, as well as every non-US absinthe distiller and distributor, every lobby group, even EU/Health Can-ada officials, etc. that we can find), letters to the editor of both local and national publications, AND to our elected representatives. Yeah, work. Not just an e-mailed form letter, ya know?

That MIGHT work. Conversely, that MIGHT lead to a crackdown. However, it would be more likely to boost public opinion of absinthe as "a tasty (or EWWWWWWW LICORICE-like) beverage which causes a slightly different type of intoxication, just as Scotch and vodka cause different types of intoxication" rather than "something that makes you go crazy and kill people." You know, like Stove Top.

Ned Brew has apparently put together (or been involved in) a documentary about the history and formulation of absinthe. I don't yet know the details. Obtaining copies of this and getting them into the hands of the media, elected representatives, and as an attachment to an FDA petition might also help. I'd not be surprised if Ned is working in that direction, himself. I'm sure he'd like to bring Jade- the only REAL Burnt™ absinthe to the potentially-vast American market.

Meanwhile, if there's GOING to be any article running of which any of us are aware, I believe it's important that we know our stuff and be sure to communicate it clearly and that it is correctly understood. And never, ever mention the existence of US-made HG's or HG'ers (if you happen to be aware of any). New Zealander or Austrian HG'ers, on the other hand (apparently, it's legal there) . . .

Any thoughts?

#56 Masque

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:08 AM

I think that was a really long post.

What should we do for the future? Oh, I don't know. Drive around, have fun, a few kids and we can figure out the future after HOLY SHIT I'M 38 YEARS OLD 


#57 TrainerAZ

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:20 AM

If you think THAT was a long post . . .

Attached Files



#58 TrainerAZ

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:21 AM

There's THREE long posts.

Speaking of posts, I'm over 400. How did THAT happen?

#59 Masque

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:23 AM

Total Cumulative Posts 408
( 0.75% of total forum posts )
Posts per day 8.7
Joined 12-March 04


There you go.

What should we do for the future? Oh, I don't know. Drive around, have fun, a few kids and we can figure out the future after HOLY SHIT I'M 38 YEARS OLD 


#60 TrainerAZ

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:29 AM

Yeah, I figgered it out. It's from followin' Skeeter around, taggin' the threads behind him.

Better than taggin' his behind, I spoze.

#61 Masque

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:42 AM

Well, yeah, I look like I'm just tagging... but I actually have interesting things to type.

Yes, after that it is Skeeter season.

What should we do for the future? Oh, I don't know. Drive around, have fun, a few kids and we can figure out the future after HOLY SHIT I'M 38 YEARS OLD 


#62 TrainerAZ

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 12:53 AM

:b&d:

Well, it's sleepy season here. Nighty night, Mr. Skeeter, and all the rest of you sleeping people.

Oh, and >TAG<. :alc:

#63 faustus

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 05:05 AM

I think with enough work and money, absinthe could be legalized. However, as AZ points out, it involves a long administrative process and decent amount of reliable science. While it is certainly possible to pursue, only if you have enough money to see it to the end, would it have any possibility of success. For example, what happens when the FDA approves your petition for review, but asks for an economic impact study? Ugh.

Anyway, absinthe, like any other taxable liquor, can make the gov't money if it is legalized. So I really don't think it's an issue of the gov't being able to make money off it.

Hey I have an idea. In exactly 1 week, I will be hopelessly unemployed (yes, there were times I was hopefully unemployed, but alas, they have passed). I'll set up a webpage dedicated to the legalization of absinthe, and y'all can donate money to feed me while I write the petition and to commission any additional studies the FDA asks for.

How bout it? Any takers? Anyone? Beuler?

#64 sixela

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 07:03 AM

Well, yeah, I look like I'm just tagging... but I actually have interesting things to type.

So why are you holding back :b&d: ?

#65 lambchop

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 08:20 AM

How bout it? Any takers? Anyone? Beuler?

Me me me!
A very great idea, Festus.

OK, I got five bucks.
Who else is in?
domo arigato

(mister roboto)

#66 Masque

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 08:29 AM

That was actually my last post of the night... it was late. I was all out of wittiness and relevance, so beddy-bye time for me.

What should we do for the future? Oh, I don't know. Drive around, have fun, a few kids and we can figure out the future after HOLY SHIT I'M 38 YEARS OLD 


#67 CelticGent

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 08:32 AM

if i stopped posting when that happened, i'd have about 4000 less.
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#68 Masque

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 08:52 AM

And bless you for your lacking sense of self restraint.

What should we do for the future? Oh, I don't know. Drive around, have fun, a few kids and we can figure out the future after HOLY SHIT I'M 38 YEARS OLD 


#69 CelticGent

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 08:57 AM

yeah, it's never been a strong point of mine.

Edited by Celticgent, 28 April 2004 - 10:00 AM.

the fresh maker

#70 Guest_Louched Liver_*

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Posted 28 April 2004 - 09:55 AM

Wow, Bearnuts, you've really reined it
in since you said you going to.
Must be really kickin' out the work for
the man.

#71 MrGreenGenes

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Posted 04 May 2004 - 01:42 PM

I'm concerned that any effort to use open channels to legalize the sale of absinthe would result in old myths being brought out to justify the usual fears of anything new and unfamiliar.

One way absinthe might be legalized is if someone is appointed to run the FDA who has friends in the liqior production or importation business. Since it would only take a bureacratic change of rules and not an Act of Congress to lift the ban, then the ban could be quietly lifted as part of a political deal. If absinthe grows more popular, Seagram's etc. will take notice and look into how they might make money from it. As long as this happens before the media goes on a "Drunk on Banned Booze Kills 7 Pedistrians" feeding frenzy, this might happen.

Not that I'd expect an absinthe from Seagram to be of high quality (pre-sweetened oil mix I'd expect), but it would open the door for importers and domestic producers interested in bringing quality products to the market.

Edited by MrGreenGenes, 04 May 2004 - 01:43 PM.


#72 Bognoz

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:44 PM

Anal rape of the elderly,
for nostalgia's sake.
Pretty animal doesn't trust you,
unless you prepare a great hot chocolate.

#73 DrinkSlinger

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 12:32 AM

Nice.
for some people, there's money in absinthe. And for some, there's only absinthe in absinthe.
.

#74 Off. Jack Batemaster

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 04:03 PM

Ho xit!
The more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap changes, the more Black Lickerish Tasting Crap tastes like Black Lickerish.

Where the fuck is ATown?




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