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#1 Moloch

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 03:54 PM

What will they think of next?

Somewhere in Florida, 25,000 disembodied rat neurons are thinking about flying an F-22.

#2 faustus

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 05:48 PM

Dammit... and to think the company I used to work for wasted millions of taxpayers' dollars on electronics!

:wub:

Still, I think that is pretty damned cool. I read another article a while back about scientists implanting electrodes into rats' brains, which simulated the stimulus the rats felt when their whiskers touched something. The result was a fairly decently remote-controllable live rat that returned basically to normal when the "remote" was turned off. The evil genious part of me laughs maniacally with the possibilities!

#3 CelticGent

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 06:37 AM

i think it sucks.

i mean, i'm all for research to help cure diseases and shit, but....

gimme a fucking break.


don't mind me...maybe i just need to watch Project X and cry myself to sleep again...
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#4 sixela

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 06:45 AM

I think it sucks too -- I think that you could use artificial neural networks (on a computer) just as successfully for this.

If I didn't, I wouldn't have tried to get a PhD on the subject of robot control optimisation using artificial neural networks (for the record: I failed to get funding because of a number of issues and bad timing).

#5 Rimbaud

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:01 AM

Six, you are indeed a sicko.

There's sometimes a buggy.

#6 mattm3

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:03 AM

This is just a continuation of the Military's thought control experiments. The idea is for pilots, tank drivers,ect. to be able to put on a helmet and thier thoughts will control thier vehicles.
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#7 faustus

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:20 AM

What's wrong with that?
As long as it's a one-way thought control, i.e., the thoughts control the machine, and not the other way around.

Think of the possibilities for people who are quadrapelgic, etc.

#8 Kirk

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:20 AM

I think that you could use artificial neural networks (on a computer) just as successfully for this.

But then I couldn't have millions of rat brains doing my bidding.
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#9 sixela

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:25 AM

Six, you are indeed a sicko.

As if you needed any proof by now.

#10 Rimbaud

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:29 AM

If you were liquor, you'd be at least 140 proof.

There's sometimes a buggy.

#11 CelticGent

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:33 AM

Think of the possibilities for people who are quadrapelgic, etc.

ohhhhh my bad.

i guess i didn't get the memo describing the military's new practice of hiring quadrapelgics to fly their planes.
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#12 TrainerAZ

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:35 AM

But then I couldn't have millions of rat brains doing my bidding.
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#13 Rimbaud

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:35 AM

I don't know about them flying planes, but they're sure fun to push out of 'em.

There's sometimes a buggy.

#14 Rimbaud

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:36 AM

Quadriplegics, that is.

There's sometimes a buggy.

#15 CelticGent

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:36 AM

:ona:
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#16 Rimbaud

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:38 AM

I wrote that especially for you, sicko.

There's sometimes a buggy.

#17 CelticGent

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:39 AM

:ona:
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#18 Rimbaud

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:41 AM

Now please show up at LF05, you insensitive bastard.

There's sometimes a buggy.

#19 louchefabrik

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 08:41 AM

Wiring rat neurons to operate vehicles might be a challenge, but wiring them to work as lawyers would be a natural transition. :yes:
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#20 mattm3

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 09:59 AM

What's wrong with that?
As long as it's a one-way thought control, i.e., the thoughts control the machine, and not the other way around.

Think of the possibilities for people who are quadrapelgic, etc.

Exactly! From what I read this could be used to power an exo-skeleton so people can move on thier own again. Kinda like real life catching up to comic books!!!
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#21 Rimbaud

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 10:06 AM

Wiring rat neurons to operate vehicles might be a challenge, but wiring them to work as lawyers would be a natural transition.

...or politicians (especially the red ones).

There's sometimes a buggy.

#22 mattm3

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 10:17 AM

Nah, they're controlled by the aliens at Roswell. Everyone knows that! :yes:
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#23 DaRabbit

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 01:56 PM

As long as it's a one-way thought control, i.e., the thoughts control the machine, and not the other way around.


One-way control would be pretty crappy- you need feedback. If you are driving a plane or a tank with your brains, you need to be able to feel your rudder position, or whether your turret is pointed at the target or just lying there all flaccid.

Otherwise you may as well just drive the damn thing normally- shorter response times and more finesse in control are the benefits to militarising such a technology.

#24 TrainerAZ

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 03:17 PM

Nuthin' worse than a flaccid turret.

Right, Smuttty?

#25 Moloch

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 03:35 PM

This is just a continuation of the Military's thought control experiments. The idea is for pilots, tank drivers,ect. to be able to put on a helmet and thier thoughts will control thier vehicles.

They arenít trying to make this a remote control operation. They are making these artificial brains that will be able to learn whatever you teach it.
This is just like a real brain; it will make new connections between neurons on its own.

Then it will do whatever it is taught without interference from outside distractions, free will, conscience, etc.

#26 faustus

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 05:46 PM

Hmm... isn't there a danger that it could develope those other interferences as it becomes more complex?

What's the life span on these brains?

One-way control would be pretty crappy- you need feedback.


Agreed. How weird to be able to "feel" the machine.

I still think this has far better applications for people with disabilities than it does for the military, but hey, since we're flinging money at the military like mad these days, can't I at least hope that something good will come of it?

:wave:

Edited by faustus, 06 January 2005 - 05:48 PM.


#27 Moloch

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 06:15 PM

There are plenty of uses besides the military. That is just a starting point since it seems to be able to control a jet as if the jet is its body.

Once they understand more about the interactions of the neurons, new uses will be thought of every day. Right now they are still trying to figure out how it works.

But the true breakthrough will come about when the researchers detect how neurons communicate in a network.

"We know some of the rudimentary rules," said DeMarse. "We just don't quite understand the language that they use to do their computations. We can extract the general features from it to control the aircraft but there's a lot more information buried in the signals that they are using, and we simply don't know what that is."



#28 greeneyes

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 06:28 PM

Basic (as opposed to applied) research is valuable. The goal is to understand neural networks. That certainly has implications for dysfunctional networks (e.g. disabled people) as well as functional ones (we know about one rat's knuckle about how that two pound loaf in your head works).
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#29 Justin

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 06:35 PM

rat neurons fly F-22 fighter jet, what will they think of next?

Rat neurons posting in this forum, evidently.

#30 greeneyes

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 06:40 PM

Word up, avian.
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#31 faustus

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:07 PM

:wave:

#32 mattm3

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:50 PM

They are making these artificial brains that will be able to learn whatever you teach it.

Sorry, this can already be acomplished by a computer. :BL: The idea is to quicken reaction times and to improve data uptake!
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#33 Moloch

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 09:27 PM

Actually, no. With a computer someone still has to write the program. With a clump of neurons, you stimulate one or two of them and they form their own connections. They in essence write their own program based on stimulus. This is quite different from how a computer works.

#34 jaded prol

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 10:22 PM

I remember some experimant last year where they used some slug parts as a circuit in a computerized gizmo. I think in the future we'll see more bio-cyber technology (though there may be ethical issues). In the mean time our shit-for-brains leaders might benefit from some rat brain implants.
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#35 CelticGent

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 06:42 AM

this whole discussion reminds me of how they got Reggie Jackson to turn into an assassin.
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#36 Grey Boy

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 07:06 AM

But he failed to kill the Queen.
That proves this technology isn't fully developed yet.

#37 CelticGent

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 07:12 AM

it's still in its infant stages, but still very scary.

they got dimebag darell....
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#38 SnakeHead

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 07:18 AM

said Thomas DeMarse, a professor of biomedical engineering at the University of Florida


This doesnít sound like a military experiment at all. I suspect if it was, we wouldnít be hearing much about it. He is using a flight sim on a home PC as his simulator, not a real F22 or a military grade simulator.

#39 DaRabbit

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 09:25 AM

Actually, having rat neurons fly a fighter plane would be pretty goddamn silly.

If you want them to be better at it than a human pilot, then you have to make them very complex. Creativity is essential- predictability would mean the enemy, using human pilots, would blow your little rat brains right out.

To do that, you will end up with a massive amount of neurons, formed into what we call a 'brain.'

You will have spent trillions to develop something you already own, and having a computer neural net do it comes out to the same thing.

This isn't cool cause they flew a plane. It's cool because we are one step closer to me getting a giant robot body (with lasers and maybe the ability to transform into a fighter jet) as well as being able to upload myself into other hardware.

And, y'know, rule the world and whatnot. At least until the ultra-violent but fighting-for-a-good-cause leading man or lady takes me out by pusing the big red self destruct button I forgot not to have installed.

I'ma be all 'Dave... I wouldn't do that Dave.... daisy daisy...'

#40 Rimbaud

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 10:17 AM

This is just a continuation of the Military's thought control experiments. The idea is for pilots, tank drivers,ect. to be able to put on a helmet and thier thoughts will control thier vehicles.

They arenít trying to make this a remote control operation. They are making these artificial brains that will be able to learn whatever you teach it.
This is just like a real brain; it will make new connections between neurons on its own.

Then it will do whatever it is taught without interference from outside distractions, free will, conscience, etc.

Uh...remember this li'l feller?

Posted Image

There's sometimes a buggy.

#41 Rimbaud

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 10:19 AM

Okay, apparently DaRabbit does!

(Must learn to read all posts in thread before posting...*@#!)

There's sometimes a buggy.

#42 Moloch

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:22 PM

This doesnít sound like a military experiment at all.

True dat. This specific experiment is being conducted at a university, but the military is still interested in the results. Jets and tanks being controlled by rat brains have fewer human casualties when they blow up.

The military isnít the only one interested in how the brain communicates. Once this language is cracked, you will be able to upload/download your "self" into another apparatus. Now you can give memories to that clone you have floating in a jar...

There are hundreds of good uses for such technology, as well as hundreds of evil uses for it. It seems inevitable that someone will use this to create an army of zombies to do their bidding.

#43 TrainerAZ

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:28 PM

I think they made a movie about that. "Attack of the Crones" or some such.


Oh, wait. That was the documentary about Cher and Charo's joint world tour.

#44 jaded prol

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:33 PM

It seems inevitable that someone will use this to create an army of zombies to do their bidding.


It's been done. They call it "Congress."
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#45 TrainerAZ

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:38 PM

Didn't someone use Budweiser to do that?

#46 Moloch

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:41 PM

They call it "Congress."

But they would save so much time if they could just upload selected memories into a host body instead of spending years brainwashing them.

#47 jaded prol

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:43 PM

They're not 'brainwashed" (though the electorate may be), they're opportunistic scum, with very few exceptions.

Though the idea of "uploading" oneself could create a kind of immortality, the interaction between our biology and our personality would make the uploaded you a bit different than the physical you. Our bodies are really connected to our brains.

Edited by jaded prol, 07 January 2005 - 03:45 PM.

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#48 Moloch

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 05:22 PM

True, there would be complications in uploading one's self into a new body. The brain would take time to form all the connections it needs to "copy" the old brain.

#49 greeneyes

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 05:25 PM

Prol, please attend to your placement of political poo, dear.
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#50 Louchelooker

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Posted 08 January 2005 - 01:38 AM

:wink:

To the whole thread. You funny fucks were on a roll. Not just you this time Rimmy, but everybody.
"Yes," said the girl. "Everything tastes of licorice. Especially all the things you've waited so long for, like absinthe." E.H.

#51 Bognoz

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 04:00 AM

Jet fuel.


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unless you prepare a great hot chocolate.

#52 artemis

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:16 PM

Since you saw fit to bump a 12-year-old thread, here is some real life rat data.

The "check engine" lamp came on in my car.  Normally, this is because of some gummint-mandated, programmed-to-fail technology that has to do with "global warming" and nothing to do with the engine's basic function.  But I took it to a shop.  A lot of wires had been chewed through by rodents.  Not an expensive problem by itself, but they were under the intake manifold, meaning the whole top part of the engine had to be removed to make the repairs.  A few dollars worth of parts and eight hundred for labor.  Mechanic guy said he gets at least one car a week with rat damage.  Insurance covers it, but I get the feeling they're going to try and beat me out of it unless I can produce video of the offending rodents in action.

Saw a TV show recently about mouse plagues in Australia.  Thousands of acres or more of wheat wiped out by a living furry carpet, with no solution in sight, until they had eaten all the crop, and then they ate each other.  Cannibalism is on the horizon as a solution to the world's problems, probably sooner than rat-driven technology.


You might be surprised how well old goat sausages are able to stand up to the heat.

#53 Kirk

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 08:02 PM

75% percent of the flying insect biomass has vanished in protected areas in the last 27 years, worse outside of them.
That pink and blue Gaucho coated corn, soybean, sunflower etc. is responsible. Einstein said that if the bees die mankind has less than 4 years to live.
We are losing around 50% a year now, along with humming birds, butterflies and bats,except for the flies and gnats.
Do the math and you will realize there is no more pressing issue threatening the immediate survival of the human race.
Neonicitinoid pesticides and their related products were designed as nerve gas and later watered down to sub lethal levels to kill insects,
it stays in the soil for a long time and kills bees even when not applied recently. It's also been connected to a rise in Parkinson's and other nervous system disorders.
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#54 jaded prol

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:25 AM

This is why moving to carbon farming is so vital -- not only to climate. It builds soil, doesn't use toxins and sequesters carbon in the process.

 

http://www.carboncyc...carbon-farming/

 

The saddest part of our eminent extinction is that we have the knowledge to do things differently but won't. And why not?

 

Money. Big money is invested in our self-destructive behavior from energy to agriculture. And money has power. 


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#55 Kirk

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 06:46 AM

Over a billion dollars profit in Gaucho systemic pesticide alone.
It has been shown that organic farming can produce the same crop yield, so why are they poisoning us all?
The year they started using the seed coatings (2006) 100% of the bees were killed in areas where the usage was heaviest
thousands of hives, since then it's gotten worse and there has been an uptick in many other diseases and disappearances.
Bayer has played games with the regulators to gain time and more sales, the seed coating was "batched" there was a mistake in the "formula"
or it was the farmers "fault", anything to delay being stopped from selling it.
Our regulators continue to aid this crime, our head of the D.E.Q. has called organic farming and alternative power such as solar and wind "parasitic"
she claims these renewable sources and techniques are destroying industry and innovation.
If you heard the bees are coming back, you have been lied to; the number of hives has started to increase but only because beekeepers are increasing
them by extraordinary, unsustainable methods
in others words, they split one strong hive into 2 weak hives and then report they have doubled the number of hives.
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#56 Kirk

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 10:00 AM

Some neonic pesticides are 7000 times more toxic to bees than DDT
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