Ok, I've taken myself away from this place.
I've said that I wouldn't pay attention to political matters.
Fine.
I lie...
I've held onto this question and for those of you that know, well, you know where this material comes from.
But its just a question...
One question...
...
...
...
Do you remember seeing the 9-11 jumpers from the WTC?
Do you remember seeing them jump from the huge opening created by the airliner?
(Please see pic in the middle)
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/wtcjumpers.html
We were told that both WTC buildings collapsed from the INTENSE heat created by the jet fuel.
I believe we were told that the fire was so hot it melted the support beams of the 2 towers...
...
...
...
Yet people were shown alive (prior to jumping) where the 'inferno' was.
I'm not doubting that there was a huge fire within each WTC buidings.
But what's the temperature that melts 99% iron girders?
(2800 Fahrenheit)
And people were there...
That's all.
Full Version: The mother of all questions...
Good question.
What a fucking decision those people had to make.
What a fucking decision those people had to make.
If I remember correctly the main support structure for the WTC is that
strange outer "skeleton", and that was seriously compromised.
I also feel that the jumpers did so due to the heat inside the building, where the jet fuel burned after the strikes, which is the source for all the smoke pouring out of the 2 buildings.
I know some of the theories about these collapses and I can't buy them.
strange outer "skeleton", and that was seriously compromised.
I also feel that the jumpers did so due to the heat inside the building, where the jet fuel burned after the strikes, which is the source for all the smoke pouring out of the 2 buildings.
I know some of the theories about these collapses and I can't buy them.
I can't believe that there would be people alive where the temperature inside was reaching a point that would melt iron...
Yup, some of the surronding collapses were highly suspicious.
Lending credence to theories of prior knowledge of the attacks.
But to what end?
Lending credence to theories of prior knowledge of the attacks.
But to what end?
I supppose that we could end it right there...
And maybe we should.
'To what end...'
And maybe we should.
'To what end...'
Well that's been answered,
if the Bird Flu strikes a US city (much like it did Toronto)
the leadership feels that martial law would be needed
to shut down the infected city and contain the inhabitants.
That shit ain't right.
if the Bird Flu strikes a US city (much like it did Toronto)
the leadership feels that martial law would be needed
to shut down the infected city and contain the inhabitants.
That shit ain't right.
Arm yourself.
Grrrrr...
Shouldn't this be a job for the National Guard?
Oh, they're all "over there".
But if there's enough military here to do this,
shouldn't they be over there so the Guard could be back here?
Um, nevermind.
Oh, they're all "over there".
But if there's enough military here to do this,
shouldn't they be over there so the Guard could be back here?
Um, nevermind.
QUOTE(1888 @ Oct 7 2005, 12:50 AM)
Grrrrr...
THAT was f'in funny GB!!!
Yes, they're ALL OVER THERE!
Yes, they're ALL OVER THERE!
Absinthe must make you paranoid.
It only had to get hot enough to melt iron in one area to bring the whole building down. As soon as one of the upper floors collapsed onto the impact point the inertia took it all down.
It only had to get hot enough to melt iron in one area to bring the whole building down. As soon as one of the upper floors collapsed onto the impact point the inertia took it all down.
A conspiracy of that magnitude would require too many people,
one of them would eventually want to sell the story,
give me a break already.
one of them would eventually want to sell the story,
give me a break already.
Heat rises. Without reading those links, what is the time difference between the jumpers and the collapse? I'd imagine the heat was building up, with little means to escape but up.
Anyone care to look up the ignition temperature of Jet fuel? I know it's high energy but I didnt think any fuel burned so hot (it would be hard to ignite in the first place, like kerosene versus gasoline).
Anyone care to look up the ignition temperature of Jet fuel? I know it's high energy but I didnt think any fuel burned so hot (it would be hard to ignite in the first place, like kerosene versus gasoline).
When the area compromised by the airliner impact finally collapsed that started a chain reaction. The extreme weight of the upper portion helped bring the building down.
A flame at F 454 can easily create temperatures in excess of 3000 degrees. The towers worked like a kiln, the heat rises until it hits an obstruction, as more heat rises, the temperature climbs.
finished with my woman 'cause she couldn't help me with my mind people think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time
QUOTE(Kirk @ Oct 7 2005, 08:17 AM)
A flame at F 454 can easily create temperatures in excess of 3000 degrees. The towers worked like a kiln, the heat rises until it hits an obstruction, as more heat rises, the temperature climbs.
Thats kinda what I was thinking Kirk.
As our resident metal artisan, I bow to your experiance.
Most aiiplane crashes on land (exclude water impacts) result in fires.
Many attempts have been made over the years to derive additives to prevent the fireball that usually accompanies the destruction of the fuel cells.
The metal did not have to melt. Steel begins to weaken at 800f and becomes very plastic at 1600F. Most forgings are done in the 1800-2000F regeion. Heating above this can result in the loss of carbon (and probably other alloying elements) in the steel.
The steel beams probably lost 75% of their compressive strength when they reached 1800F, and estimates are that the temperature may have exceeded 2000F.
Many attempts have been made over the years to derive additives to prevent the fireball that usually accompanies the destruction of the fuel cells.
The metal did not have to melt. Steel begins to weaken at 800f and becomes very plastic at 1600F. Most forgings are done in the 1800-2000F regeion. Heating above this can result in the loss of carbon (and probably other alloying elements) in the steel.
The steel beams probably lost 75% of their compressive strength when they reached 1800F, and estimates are that the temperature may have exceeded 2000F.
Seems kind of reasonable then, that there could be temperatures high enough to bring down the TOP floors (which then cause the rest to collapse) somewhere above where people were jumping out.
Lots of tinfoil hat stuff out there, some of it may even be true, I certainly dont trust this administration to tell the truth except when they are forced to. But It seems to me the widely accepted explanations for 911 and the resulting collapse of the towers stand up to any reasonable questioning.
There is enough stuff out there to be worried about thats real without getting tangled up in this kind of thing.
Lots of tinfoil hat stuff out there, some of it may even be true, I certainly dont trust this administration to tell the truth except when they are forced to. But It seems to me the widely accepted explanations for 911 and the resulting collapse of the towers stand up to any reasonable questioning.
There is enough stuff out there to be worried about thats real without getting tangled up in this kind of thing.
I have my own heat treatment oven that it good to over 2000F and I use it to heat treat metal. I work with mostly low alloy steel (similar to structural steel in I beams) and do case hardening for the most part, but do a lot of tool steel heat treatment for making tool and dye type of stuf. I also work with high alloy steel like 4140 on occasion for parts that I can use use in the machinable state.
I make gun parts for my own guns that are from the period of 1865 to 1885 (mostly Remington Rolling Block Rifles). I'm not actually a metalergust, but I know enough from college and machinest books to have some insight into the strengths of steel in tension, compression and hoop stress.
I have absoulutely no doubt that the fires from the crashes along with the initial weakening of the structure from the impact were sufficient to cause the collapse as I have seen them.
I still think Oswald didn't kill Kennedy, even thought I have owned a M38 Carcano and duplicated the firing at 100yards in less than 6 seconds.
The reason I believe that Oswald did not do it is that the "Magic Bullet" is the most damning evidence against it.
I have shot hundreds of rounds of original 160gr round nose fmj Italian Carcano ammo, or reloads using original bullets (the 140gr ammo from Norma sux. If anywone wants to know why, I'll explain). I am totally convinced that the recovered bullet, along with fragments recovered from Connaly's arm exceed the 6th standard deviation for the bullet mass of a war time carcano bullet. Not to mention fragments remaining in Connaly. Furtheremore, some of the fragements removed from Connaly and shown on the x-rays are jacket fragements. The "Magic" bullet has an intact jacket.
Therefore, (1) the Warren comission was bogus and a cover up to prevent us from realizing that Oswald had help from (a)Russia or (b) the Mob and (2) we will never really know what happened.
In other words, I do believe in Govt consparacies. I am furthere convinced that the collapse of the twin towers is not one of them.
I make gun parts for my own guns that are from the period of 1865 to 1885 (mostly Remington Rolling Block Rifles). I'm not actually a metalergust, but I know enough from college and machinest books to have some insight into the strengths of steel in tension, compression and hoop stress.
I have absoulutely no doubt that the fires from the crashes along with the initial weakening of the structure from the impact were sufficient to cause the collapse as I have seen them.
I still think Oswald didn't kill Kennedy, even thought I have owned a M38 Carcano and duplicated the firing at 100yards in less than 6 seconds.
The reason I believe that Oswald did not do it is that the "Magic Bullet" is the most damning evidence against it.
I have shot hundreds of rounds of original 160gr round nose fmj Italian Carcano ammo, or reloads using original bullets (the 140gr ammo from Norma sux. If anywone wants to know why, I'll explain). I am totally convinced that the recovered bullet, along with fragments recovered from Connaly's arm exceed the 6th standard deviation for the bullet mass of a war time carcano bullet. Not to mention fragments remaining in Connaly. Furtheremore, some of the fragements removed from Connaly and shown on the x-rays are jacket fragements. The "Magic" bullet has an intact jacket.
Therefore, (1) the Warren comission was bogus and a cover up to prevent us from realizing that Oswald had help from (a)Russia or (b) the Mob and (2) we will never really know what happened.
In other words, I do believe in Govt consparacies. I am furthere convinced that the collapse of the twin towers is not one of them.
QUOTE(Kirk @ Oct 7 2005, 08:49 AM)
A conspiracy of that magnitude would require too many people,
one of them would eventually want to sell the story,
give me a break already.
one of them would eventually want to sell the story,
give me a break already.
A little secret about Wasington: Washington in not capable of keeping secrets.
Am I the only one who appreciated the genius of CG, right there?
I guess the only thing that I can add to this, is that when it happened I was on my way to work at Mather Field, in Sacramento. I watched the collapse with my co-workers ( I worked in a prop-small jet repair facility) and as we took in what happened, even before any collapse, the general consensus was that they were coming down. These guys work with heat stress on metal every day, although not structural I beams, but with burning fuel in jet engines.
QUOTE
Am I the only one who appreciated the genius of CG, right there?
Now I get it!
Good one Ceege.
CG=genius.
He may be a prophet.
He may be a prophet.
HA! That fits!
"... I coulda stayed in Red Bank and made myself a prophet!"
"... I coulda stayed in Red Bank and made myself a prophet!"
Now that I'm off the funky juice, I'll retire to those sobering explanations given by some of you...
They do make sense.
Sorry for getting carried away...
They do make sense.
Sorry for getting carried away...
go on with your bad self, digits.
even if you are kooky...at least you're posting.
even if you are kooky...at least you're posting.
Oh, wait.
Gold and Silver have gone waaaay up in the past few days...
Damn.
Must be onacause the earthshaker-quaker.
Or the apocalypse...
http://www.theapocalypsetimes.com/
Gold and Silver have gone waaaay up in the past few days...
Damn.
Must be onacause the earthshaker-quaker.
Or the apocalypse...
http://www.theapocalypsetimes.com/
Kooky is as kooky does...
...
My favorite conspiracy theory...
QUOTE
Idaho Weatherman Believes Katrina Caused By Yakuza
POSTED: 7:47 pm CDT September 26, 2005
UPDATED: 8:00 pm CDT September 26, 2005
An Idaho weatherman who claims that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the Japanese mafia has quit.
After 10 years at KPVI TV, weatherman Scott Stevens' last day on air was Sunday.
Stevens thinks that Katrina was caused by the Yakuza mob using a Russian made electromagnetic generator to control the weather.
The station said it didn't fire Stevens, but he quit because he now wants to devote more time to his theory.
Other meteorologists say the notion that man can cause hurricanes is preposterous.
Copyright 2005 by NBC13.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
POSTED: 7:47 pm CDT September 26, 2005
UPDATED: 8:00 pm CDT September 26, 2005
An Idaho weatherman who claims that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the Japanese mafia has quit.
After 10 years at KPVI TV, weatherman Scott Stevens' last day on air was Sunday.
Stevens thinks that Katrina was caused by the Yakuza mob using a Russian made electromagnetic generator to control the weather.
The station said it didn't fire Stevens, but he quit because he now wants to devote more time to his theory.
Other meteorologists say the notion that man can cause hurricanes is preposterous.
Copyright 2005 by NBC13.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
i can't stop laughing
jesus that's great
jesus that's great
A slight update...
QUOTE
Idaho Weatherman Stands By Theory Despite National Ridicule
By Scott Logan
POCATELLO -
To be clear, weatherman Scott Stevens of Pocatello says he never claimed the Japanese Mafia actually created Hurricane Katrina as revenge for the World War II atomic bombings.
He said they could have.
"I believe they have the technology, as do the Russians and the Americans. As for who actually did it, that's a hard call," Stevens told Local 2 News.
But his comments have brought the Twin Falls native national attention -- and ridicule. He's been in newspapers all over the country and has appeared on national radio and TV shows.
Stevens, 39, also says the Bush Administration has the power to have stopped Katrina, but intentionally did not.
Why not? "It was a federal grab for local and state authority," he said.
Talking with Scott Stevens is to buckle up for a bumpy ride. He speaks passionately about a war waged for economic and geopolitical purposes by nations and groups who manipulate the weather through an electromagnetic global grid.
And, yes, he's aware many meteorologists think he's a kook.
But he insists people, not nature, have been controlling the weather for the past 30 years.
Tim Barker with the National Weather Service thinks the idea is absolutely implausible.
"Well, the weather is actually caused by the sun," Barker told Local 2 News, "and that's a lot of energy, and we humans don't really have the power to put that much energy in the atmosphere."
Since his Katrina comments, Stevens says he has amicably parted ways with KPVI-TV in Pocatello where he worked as a weather forecaster for nine years.
With cameras mounted on his house, he continues to monitor the weather, looking for odd-shaped clouds and contrails of aircraft which he says are dropping barium and aluminum in the atmosphere to alter weather patterns. He talks of book and movie deals and of support from people who also believe the weather is not what it should be.
"The weather has been been stolen from us," he said. "It simply been stolen from us."
Stevens says he may be laughed at now on national radio and TV, but he believes his ideas will ultimately be proven true.
"I may be (considered) wacky," he said, "but soon things will be seen differently, perhaps as soon as the end of the year."
Until then, Scott Stevens is content to find himself in the eye of this controversial storm.
By Scott Logan
POCATELLO -
To be clear, weatherman Scott Stevens of Pocatello says he never claimed the Japanese Mafia actually created Hurricane Katrina as revenge for the World War II atomic bombings.
He said they could have.
"I believe they have the technology, as do the Russians and the Americans. As for who actually did it, that's a hard call," Stevens told Local 2 News.
But his comments have brought the Twin Falls native national attention -- and ridicule. He's been in newspapers all over the country and has appeared on national radio and TV shows.
Stevens, 39, also says the Bush Administration has the power to have stopped Katrina, but intentionally did not.
Why not? "It was a federal grab for local and state authority," he said.
Talking with Scott Stevens is to buckle up for a bumpy ride. He speaks passionately about a war waged for economic and geopolitical purposes by nations and groups who manipulate the weather through an electromagnetic global grid.
And, yes, he's aware many meteorologists think he's a kook.
But he insists people, not nature, have been controlling the weather for the past 30 years.
Tim Barker with the National Weather Service thinks the idea is absolutely implausible.
"Well, the weather is actually caused by the sun," Barker told Local 2 News, "and that's a lot of energy, and we humans don't really have the power to put that much energy in the atmosphere."
Since his Katrina comments, Stevens says he has amicably parted ways with KPVI-TV in Pocatello where he worked as a weather forecaster for nine years.
With cameras mounted on his house, he continues to monitor the weather, looking for odd-shaped clouds and contrails of aircraft which he says are dropping barium and aluminum in the atmosphere to alter weather patterns. He talks of book and movie deals and of support from people who also believe the weather is not what it should be.
"The weather has been been stolen from us," he said. "It simply been stolen from us."
Stevens says he may be laughed at now on national radio and TV, but he believes his ideas will ultimately be proven true.
"I may be (considered) wacky," he said, "but soon things will be seen differently, perhaps as soon as the end of the year."
Until then, Scott Stevens is content to find himself in the eye of this controversial storm.
don't let digits see this
You think digits is the one stealing the weather?
Where would he keep it?
Where would he keep it?
sean connery's lair.
At first I want to laugh my ass off. Then I think in this day and age maybe it is possible. I used to believe that everything was the way we saw it to be as humans then I started to see that it isn't. Things aren't always as they seem. Who knows?
I seem to recall the Chinese claiming that they could guarantee good weather for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Hmmmm..
They also claim that archaic Chinese Jade- the only REAL Burnt™ absinthe grows on trees.
Don't believe 'em.
Don't believe 'em.
The weather conspiriacy just made CNN.
it must be true then.
good thing i've got my yakuza tattoo.
they won't send a tornado through my house
good thing i've got my yakuza tattoo.
they won't send a tornado through my house
Sho you she,
If I'dn kept dat damn weathah machine in my lairah you'dn nevah know it wash real!
If I'dn kept dat damn weathah machine in my lairah you'dn nevah know it wash real!
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