Hurt belongs to Johnny Cash.

Agreed on both counts.

Is lammie's restraining order still valid?

I believe it expired when he expired. It's hard to harass the dead.

No impossible, but hard.

trent may have written the song but johnny was the song... you could hear the lifetime of pain and sorrow from a man who knew his time was almost up.

"Fuck Trent Reznor".



Speaking of an unwashed pussy...

Easy there catfish, Reznor gave us snappy tunes like closer, burn and ruiner. He also made the best videos that have ever been played on that shithook music network.

JC is a legend for sure and his cover was painfully honest but thats not a reason to knock the author.

Nope, Mark Romanek made most of those videos. Reznor just sat there and had makeup put on and his hair dressed, then mouthed along to his 7th grade suicide poem lyrics.

He is a very talented musician and a technical genius, and the lyrics for hurt are admittedly brilliant, but even monkeys occaisionally do impresseive things.

Stop raining on my parade Larry. He's no Stephin Merritt or Tom Waits but he's not a monkey. Then again, what the fuck has he done in the past few years.

(says the martinis)

I'm gonna jump right up there on the "Fuck Trent Reznor" bandwagon. No legal things pending, but there oughta be.

But no. No. One cannot legally force another to stop being a creepy asshole.

Good thing for those of us frequenting this spot, but I'll let that go by unremarked upon....

Hey Lambie!

I agree with Lammie,
can't make Trent fuck himself.
He's free to be.
People should be smart enough to know he's a fucking dumbass.

I am just curious, but where the fuck did this come from?
Were you listening to one of them, or had you just had it?


I am not a fan of either, but listen to both. Both will continue to influence music for many years...If only Trent lived in New Orleans at the time of Katrina, he too might be spoken of in the past tense.

Good to see you, too, sugarwidget.

"I am not a fan of either"

i was a huge fan of trent in the mid-90's, apparently i've grown up some and i think trent now has become mostly stale.

Not to insult you, but maybe you haven't changed...maybe you are right and he has become stale. I have friends who love his old shit, and have for years, but nearly hate his new stuff. They only own the new stuff to complete the collection, not for listening. They are kinda ya know?

Cash inherited "Hurt."

Rag on Reznor all you want, halo sixteen is where it's at.

What 2LY! stated a few posts above is so true... you can hear it in his voice and that's what I think we all mean when we say it belongs to JC.

Hey, waitaminute... JC

"JC"... "I wear this crown of thorns (shit)..."

Get it?!

Kinda spooky, huh?

Nevermind. It's back to the bottle for me...

Very cool signature Ambassador Grim!

Speaking of good electronic music (this is for you 1888, and yes, Trent IS a good musician), I just purchased Depeche Mode's latest, "Playing the Angel".

It's AWESOME. I'm not kidding. Their last one sucked except for two songs, and I had written them off as another heroin rehab casualty, but most of the tracks on the new one are every bit as good as gems from Violator and Black Celebration.

Wow! That's very cool to hear because I basically felt the same as you about them and aside from a passing curiosity, I wasn't even thinking of the new CD.

But now, I just may have to go out and get that one!

Thanks Porkio!

Ohmygod that was so cool... my posts read "1234"

Ha!

Well they don't say that anymore but it was like seeing your new car odometer turn 666.

By the way... On June 6th of next year, George Bush turns into...

... ok, I'll stop.

"but maybe you haven't changed..."

oh, yeah i've changed... been through a world of shit and back again...

"maybe you are right and he has become stale."

i shouldn't have said it that way, i just don't relate as much to his newer stuff at this time in my life... back in tha' day i would've said trent and i were on similar wavelegnths.

"you can hear it in his voice"

you can here it through the whole cd, you could tell johnny was making peace was those around him before he left.

Agreed on all counts. You couldn't have said it better. I worshipped NIN once upon a time, (I still admire his brilliance as a sound engineer), but once you hear Cash sing that song, it takes on a whole new weight that wasn't there in the original.

I was never into his music. Were it not for those around me I would likely never have owned any of his shit except for the Perfect Drug single. I do like "real" industrial, although how many people really consider his stuff industrial? I also am not ashamed to admit that I like Marilyn Manson, who succeeded due to Reznor's efforts (and because Brian Warner wanted to be Trent Reznor)...actually I am ashamed, but just a little.

...

Ouch.

Oh yeah, who do you consider "real" industrial?

JC was real, industrial has nothing to do with it.

We may find some answers here...

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=103162

And no infighting!

Debates and disagreements are welcome though.

"Rodney says: Keep the Peace"

Was that an attempt to keep this thread on topic?

That kind of behavior is frowned upon around here.

I was just going to mention how the cover of Joy Division's Dead Souls Trent did for the Crow soundtrack did no justice to the original.

Than I was going to say something about how Coil is obvoiusly the musical inspiration for much of Reznor's better stuff. They also appear on one of his albums.

With that, I was going to draw a line back to the original industrial music movement, because Peter Christopherson from Coil was once a member of Throbbing Gristle.

But you can't discount the industrial movement in America about the same time. The Velvet Underground and Suicide were blowing people's minds right and left.
God, and don't forget about the electric guitar cacophony of early Glenn Branca.

Which brings me to the No Wave movement, and the spendid minimalist delirium of DNA and the simple white funk of James Chance.

Of course this is all New York here, so it wouldn't be amiss to mention Teenage Jesus and the Jerks era Lydia Lunch. Which of course brings to mind the fabulous short movies of Richard Kern, and the association with Clint Ruin aka J. G. Thirlwell aka Foetus, who continues to produce amazing industrial music, such as the soundtrack to the hit cartoon The Venture Brothers, on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim.

I would be lax to avoid mentioning modern industrial music, especially that produced in Denver, the backdrop of my adolescence. Boyd Rice IS modern industial music, by virtue also of his collaborations with Death in June, Current 93 (one of whose members, David Tibet, did the artwork on the bottle of the recent Duplais style), Feral House publishing(which prints James Shelby Downard's writings, by the way), and blood fetishism.

But let's not forget Germany, arguably the birthplace of industrialism, and I'm not talking Rammstein here. I mean original greats like Einsturzende Neubauten, the guitarist of which also played for many years with Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. But industrial culture is not only music, and I would consider the films of German savant Werner Herzog, especially Stroszeck, which brings me full circle, as it was this movie Ian Curtis of Joy Division was watching when he decided to hang himself.

(whew)

Sorry.

A great Boston Industrial band was Big Catholic Guilt.
The lead singer/songwriter was sexually abused by his uncle.
His Mum attended all the shows, she said...
"I don't like his music, but I'm glad he deals with it this way."

They kicked ass.



The vocalist too...

In all honesty, while the influences Greenone mentioned are valid, I think Reznor's biggest influences were Prince and early Depeche Mode. Martin Gore was one of the first to incorporate non-musical (i.e. industrial) sounds into synth pop, and you can hear his influence all over Pretty Hate Machine.

Great Gobs of Gullet Goo!! I can't believe I forgot to mention the Swans, maybe the greatest industrial band ever! Michael Gira"s voice is easily as identifiable as Johnny Cash's or Ian Curtis's.

Anybody here hear anything by his new band, The Angels of Light? JC would have liked it, I think. It's kind of folky industrial, and I love it. I saw them perform with Devendra Banhart at the Larimer Lounge in Denver last year, and it was just awesome. If they come to perform near you, go see them, it is an experience you won't forget.


Also, how about one of the original "industrial" films, David Lynch's Eraserhead?

Industrial was so much more than just a musical genre, it was a whole cultural movement. Like the Peace Love movement, it seemed to embrace all forms of media and had a worldwide effect.

When I think about it, I am hard pressed to define a worldwide cultural synchronicity in present day. How will this decade be remembered, culturally speaking?

I think technology and a rising standard of living is starting to dull our creativity as a race. I think the ugly, hateful, and repressive elements of our psyche are fertile beds for creativity, and when we become more comfortable and secure, we lose some of the intensity of our existence. I'm not an evil or hateful person, but I never feel that death, pain, and suffering are bad things. I do however think that Utopia would be a bad thing. Industrial culture embraces the filth and ugliness of life and turns it into something more expressive than peace and comfort could ever generate. I won't discount domestic happiness, because sometimes I yearn for it strongly, but I think that trying to eliminate suffering is a bad idea, and I would almost go so far as to say we should encourage chaos and insecurity.

It all depends on what you think the most important elements of consciousness are.

GG= The Industrial Music Encyclopedia

yeah, that and $40* will get him a drink at dinky's place



($5+$35 tip)

Whenever I would play the Swans for people (one of my favourite bands), people would always say "isn't that the guy from Crash Test Dummies"?

Then I would spit at them.

I saw Angels of Light play a few years ago at a club he frequents called Tonic, and they were great. Kind of like goth cowboy music. Evangeline and New York Girls are some beautiful haunting songs that make you feel like time stops. I've talked to Michael Gira on a few occaisions. He usually smokes a big fat cigar and wears a funny straw hat. He was at this reading/performance Genesis P-Orridge did a couple years ago of his book "Painful but Fabulous", and he got fucking smashed and was yelling at Genesis to take his clothes off. I asked him if he would ever do any live performances of the mind-blowing stuff he did for that "Body Lovers" album, but he said nobody would give them any money for it so he abandoned the idea. Too bad, "The Body Lovers" is one of those albums that will seriously fuck you up if you listen to it in one go.

My 19 month old nephew. You should hear him bang on pots and kick toys across the room. And Throbbing Gristle (to avoid disagreement).

Next time I should read to bring myself up to date on the discussion.



While trying to find when Coil was founded I noticed that many consider Nurse With Wound to be industrial...I just knew I liked them. Too lazy to keep looking for my answer, as I hate reminding myself that I am too poor to put more Coil in my collection.



I never really paid much attention to the music for The Venture Brothers. It fell into the same category as 80% of the music I hear on tv (being unremarkable attention grabbing or suggestive stuff for the masses) until you mentioned this. I will listen a bit closer next time I watch it.



I don't really look at anything Lynch does as anything more than another David Lynch masterpiece, even the shit I don't like. I also usually avoid the "scene" when it comes to music, as I listen to a fairly wide variety. Industrial is by far my favorite genre, so I am open to suggestions for stuff that I may not have heard. I would listen to more were it not for my damned picky taste. I am surprised that no one has suggested Big Catholic Guilt since I relocated to the Boston area (thanks Grey Boy).



Industrial is still around, perhaps not as big as it once was though. No need to put it in an early grave by refering to it in past-tense.



I agree with much of this, but must speak up about technology "dulling creativity." I actually think the opposite is true (although I feel humans are very lazy and complacent). With technology being as accessible as it is I feel that it is easier for people to indulge in their creativity. I do not see a dog scratching at paper as art (http://www.tillamookcheddar.com/), but their is a place for art to come from unconventional places. Industrial would not be what it is without technology, and there are many other resultant forms of art. I create some instruments I use for my futile musical attempts through circuit bending and many others are on video game systems. I am also a fan of cyberpunk. I could also mention many other forms of art where either technology was used to make the art or is a part of the art, but I am having difficulty tracking them down. I will pretend that Electroplankton and other Toshio Iwai creations.

Anyone follow Genesis P-Orridge's nonmusical endeavors, or am I the lone fool here? It was stuff related to research on chaos magic that actually led me to the Principia Discordia, GreenGullet.

I only meant technology dulls our creativity in proportion to the degree it makes our lives more comfortable.

It's true that industrial is still alive as culture, but it seems that angst and repression are decreasing in the world, so it may be losing some of its popular relevance. Also, the genre has become diluted with popular "industrial" groups like Rammstein. I'm sorry, but when I hear System of a Down singing about self righteous suicides, I don't feel anything gritty or industrial.

The Japanese and Germans produced good industrial culture in part because it was the product of a conquered nation. Tetsuo: Iron Man has got to be one of the best Industrial films because you really feel concepts like anger, power, filth, sex, and repression. An obsession with destruction is key to an industrial atmosphere.


NWW counts as industrial because it has a kind of black sarcastic humor, as well as being associated with Coil and Current 93.

Porkio, I think Trent Reznor is less influenced by Depeche Mode than by New Order, which makes sense because New Order is the members of Joy Division left after Ian Curtis hung himself.

Aren't SoaD metal? I do like some Rammstein (and Bile, and KMFDM/Pig, say and think what you will) Most of the Japanese stuff I have heard was not my style. Any suggestions? I heard something a while ago from an "Industrial fan" who likes the music, but doesn't like the anger and stuff they talk about. I feel that the disgusted anger, general revulsion and , as you said, obsession with destruction, is part of the motivation as well as the feel of the music.

What are your feelings for cEvin Key(particularlyDownload) and ohGr? I personally like both, but never liked Skinny Puppy. No, my capital D has nothing to do with them...I just like doing shit backwards.

The only thing New Order has in common with Joy Division is Peter Hook's bass style. Lyrically and musically they're no more similar than the Foo Fighters are to Nirvana. They intentionally changed musical direction after Curtis's suicide, Peter Hook even said so. Combine that with the fact that New Order has much more interesting lyrics than Reznor's "you hurt me, fuck you, life sucks" lyrics, and you'll find even more differences.

Listen to Black Celebration and then Pretty Hate Machine and tell me you don't hear Martin Gore's influence all over that album. Some of the synth arpeggios are nearly identical, and both rely heavily on minor 3rds in the melodies, and non-traditional sounds as percussion accents.

Okay, I will. What about Coil and Aphex Twin, both of whom appear on NIN albums?

There's definitely a coil influence there in terms of the style of sounds they utilize, but Coil's stuff was a lot more meandering and ambient, whereas Reznor's songs are generally very precise in terms of structure, and many of them tend to be catchy or have some sort of pop friendly hook. None of Coil's stuff that I've heard is like that.

Aphex Twin has some stuff in common with Reznor, in the sense that they both like to distort the living shit out of their percussion, but in terms of melodies and overall style, I still think Reznor has more in common musically with Martin Gore than anyone else.