I bought into the 1st 2 Big Deals at $540 each.
Bought an extra bottle of #19.
Sang the virtues of the stuff, because I really liked it,
and was even accused of whoring for it.
May 1 I got laid off. I still wanted to keep getting the stuff,
but dumbemployment wouldn't kick in for a while, I didn't know
how much it would pay, and I happened to not exactly be flush
when I got whacked.
I asked Wolfgang to hold, hold mind you, not send right away,
a bottle until I could pay for it. Keep in mind I was a customer from the
start, and dropped $1,200 in his pocket. I was told no, he wouldn't
do it because he'd been stiffed before (how's that work? Just sell the
shit to someone else!) and, here's what got me, he said he sells out
anyway, so there's no reason to do me a favor.
Well, yes there is. Take care of your loyal customers.

I was also promised samples in exchange for a
little favor I did him.
Nuthin'.

And the e-mail asking for venture capital after I'd lost my job was classic.

You'r over reacting.

Moonman didn't kept a bottle for you because it would have been unfair to other good customers. He did offer free samples later to compensate...but you probably forgot about it right ?

When you'r spitting on Moonman, a box is actually flying to your home with a carefully aged free sample (sent last week). Thanks for the spit, ungrateful-Liver.

Moonman never *asked* for capital, he just sent more emails about the investment opportunity to those who had expressed the interest in investing in his upcoming business. Moonman doesn't know anything about your financial situation. Some people lose their job but still have a big portfollio to manage. He could not just assume you where totally broke so he kept on talking about it with you.

Jeez, you can justify anything in your mind.

I'll send the shit back if you want.
Or, better, on to a Newbian. Yeah, that's
what I'll do.

The pitch for $$$ included no "Sorry you are out
of work, but just in case you are rich from flipping
burgers..."

You'r passing your personal frustrations on me. That's very childish

What am I frustrated about?

Get a grip on reality.

What's childish is this victim routine.

I find it strange that LL choose to bring this up now, and not before (that I have ever seen).

Boy, you guys are just not gonna let a mistake that came to nothing go, are you?

It's not really strange. It was a cumulative thing, SoPeeJeez. Think straw and camel.

He brought it up, just not publicly. There have been many little incidents leading up to this point.

Yeah I agree with you cros!!

Which would include what, exactly?

I'm wondering if this conversation should be moved to the CCC.

DG

If the mayor wanted it in the CCC, I'm sure he'd have started it in the CCC or moved the thread there.

wouldn't be a proper 'fit' if it weren't in public...

Damn right.

I'm not gettin' the question Doc, please
rephrase.

I'm still waiting for my litany of grievances.

I’ve refrained from commenting until this point.

But… there are several issues at hand.

There has been some miscommunication because we, the Admin, have never officially set down rules to follow in regards to HG discussion, sales, or promotion. We've never even set down policies for re-sellers of Euro absinthe. To this day we've just been winging it. I’ve got my ethical standards, Crosby has his and the Liver is always bashing those that ‘dis the house. It’s not surprising that parties at every end often feel slighted and abused. So I apologize to all those that feel they’ve been unjustly penalized. Where does one draw the line? What is our beef? If we lay down the law, I want it to be just and equal, with no personal vendettas.

What is acceptable at the lounge, and what is not?

Is it a question of legality?
Our European sponsors’ businesses are legal in EuroFuckyLand, but shipping it here is not. It appears that shipping products into the US is morally acceptable, as long as they come from a legitimate vendor?

Is it a question of price gouging?
Princess of Paranoia is slammed because of her price gouging, but no one has made mention of the Moonman’s craft which has a similar price structure/profit margin.
The Euro vendors are making money, plain and simple. Do you think most of their shipping prices are the actual cost? It’s ok for them to make money, but not the clandestine seller? Is it their legitimacy, or the fact that their profit margin is not publicly available? Why can one group make money, and not the other?

Is it just the sales of HG?
There are several people frequenting this board that sell HG on a regular basis. For some unexplained reason it’s morally acceptable to allow them to sell, but not the Moonman. It’s obviously not an issue with selling HG… or is it?

Is it personal?
Wolfgang is arrogant, but that’s personal. Is he bashed for his attitude, or his operation? Just because you don’t see eye to eye with someone, that’s doesn’t make it ok to burn them at the stake.

Or….Is it the shill?
Perhaps we come down on those who are obviously just in it to make money. The claws come out when we feel someone is exploiting other people, becoming greedy, or just giving our beloved green fairy a bad name.
We take offense when a seemingly honest and giving individual ceases to take others into consideration whilst conducting “business”. At this point we cry “FOUL” and begin the public flogging.


So it is the shill?
Many of us have been burned by cold coorperate decision makers in the real world. We recognize greed when we see it. This forum is a place to come for relaxation and information. A club for like-minded people to gather and discuss our passions and/or addictions. The absinthe shill is an ambulance chaser, or that annoying telemarketer during the family diner. Shillers be forewarned this is not a place to make a sales pitch. The absinthe thugs will take you down.

Ask yourself this question:

Would an HGer in New Zealand, producing fantastic absinthe, selling it for $225/L, be accepted as a sponsor?

What if said HG'er was an all around good guy, always willing to help out others and make deals...
What if said HG'er was an arrogant kiwi, that refused to help out his paying public, or was constantly pushing his product at every opportunity???

Seems as though the shill-ittude has something to do with our little grievance... no?

That said, let me continue on my personal rant…

I’ve never condoned the selling of HG, publicly or privately. I do not like it in a box, I do not like it with a fox.

Every person that’s sold HG through this forum has been warned by myself, or other admin to keep it on the DL. That means NO open posts or PM’s about cost or transactions. If they were to conduct business it was NOT to be through the lounge. Somehow we let the Moonman promote his goods openly, and that was not fair on our part. We did in fact, give him a banner, and laud his operation. I think we were torn between the excitement of a good product that was available for all to purchase, and our feelings of hesitancy towards a public display of bootlegging. We wanted him to work out, to become legitimate, and to share his craft with the drinking public. Unfortunately it didn’t work out that way. The more he sold, the more his apparent disregard for those who supported him grew. Does the term “too big for his britches” ring a bell? Several people have voiced their concern to me within the past few months. All of them with the same thoughts.
Someone has forgotten about marketing and image. PR is not about shilling, it’s about reputation and image! But I digress…

Selling HG jeapordizes the anonnimity of our little group. It’s one thing to partake in a forum that discusses and popularizes a quasi-legal substance. It’s another to openly promote the illegal sales, illegal production, and illegal shipment of said substance within the US. This is the real danger folks. Uncle Sam doesn’t like getting screwed out of his tax money. The only reason I haven’t put the hammer down is because of the members who might not have a chance to try HG without these “discrete” transactions. I let a little discrete promotion slip by for the benefit of the people that visit the lounge even though I don't like it.

And part of this promotion was the Giveaway.
Which started out as to Admins only, me and Dinky.
What, no Cros? Right, Wolfgang didn't know Cros is Admin.
Well, yet another misunderstanding. But, Cros can get samples if he
reviews them, something Dinky and I were not asked to do.
Sound shitty to you? Did to us. We said fuck the samples, give them
to you people.
And that worked for awhile. Until the old Lounge burned, and before
the acrid stink had left our nostrils, there was Moonman doing the
Giveaway on his own, not following the rules.
Another misunderstanding.

Very nicely stated. I better understand the problem now. I guess I've also been disquieted in my own head about Wolfgang's increasing inability (or lack of desire) to separate himself from Moonman (i.e. Wolfgang-as-individual vs. Wolfgang-as-shill). But I'm still a little disquieted by the way it went down. It had all the subtlety of a mugging.

It's the shrill fuckin' shill.
And the disregard for even attempting
to pay attention.
Cros not an Admin?
It'd be ok to work w/Winnie the Shitbag?

BaaBaaDoc,
I never said I don't like you.
I just like Pokio a lot more than you now.

To all 10 of you reading this thread right now....



Hello!

And here's a raised middle finger, what to celebrate my new-found outlaw status:



Oh. That was two middle fingers. My mistake.

I don't blame you at all for liking Porkpie better than me. There are, what?, maybe 7 good reasons I can think of. Reason #7 probably being the most convincing of all.

Hmm, I guess now's not the time to promote my new website,

www.dognuts.com

Where we offer the highest quality dog nuts at the lowest possible prices, shipping additional, handling guaranteed!

IT'S THE SHILLIZZLE OF DOGNUTS!

i like everybody.


i'm a goddam people person, can't you see that?????

Then why do I hate you?

btw- I'm an arrogant self absorbed prick.... but I'm not greedy.


I think the majority of this could have been handled privately with Wolfgang. Personal problems should be handled in such a way.

Shill or not, what we've done is comparable to jumping a guy in the alley. Let's at least explain (in a civil manner) what his indescretions have been.

Don't just bop him in the head and run away. Sit him down, tell him how he's been bad, and then send him to his room.

Worked for me

because i'm beautiful.

I'd like to take this opportunity to comment on my appreciation for our our admins' strong sense of stewardship. You guys are always looking out for us, in one way or another, even when we're not hip to the issue at hand. Good business. Thanks.

It's been done and done and done.
And something else comes up.
1st people are saying-
"Weird how nothing was said until now."
It was said, to Wolf, privately.
Now that something has been said-
"That should have been done privately."

Exactly. He deserves better, and not because of his martyrdom, but because he's been here for a long time and, for better or for worse, is (or at least was) one of us.

This isn't a union gig.
Time on the job means nothing.
Performance.
Playing well w/others.
I saw the fucker run w/scissors!

I'll give you 3 free bottles of Nemesinthe if you post that in every thread...
(that's a joke, I have no idea who makes that poodle piss).

In any case, I hope Wolfgang comes back. In spite of his rather insensitive business ethics, he makes worthwhile contributions to this forum, and I'd hate to see him leave because of this.

Hard for those of us who watched the fray from the sidelines to know that though, and knowing it now makes me feel better about the whole thing. I think everybody is pretty much on the same page, now that more information has become available.

Original post-
"And what part of me saying he's been told repeatedly in private, but continues his bahavior in public did ya miss?"

Edited addendum-
Sorry, you fast ass hookup folks got in in front of me.
My apologies.

Bad bad Wolfgang..

Seriously.

Communication on the superinformationhighway is oddly difficult. It's tough to know exactly where the other person is coming from, and it's even tougher to make yourself 100% understood. There's always that grey area.

I think this discussion is fairly done, and it's time to move it over to the ccc where we can discuss the future of similar endeavors....

At one point I offered to be the go-between for all Wolf's public dealings.
To smooth things over.
I was told "sure, sounds good" then that was the end of it, and here we are.

yeah, what she said.

As for moving this thread underground, you really wanna look like you're
hiding something, which you will be, from all those following who won't be
able to see it?
Like Wolf?
And who knows how many others.
What's it help by choosing your audience?

Sometimes y'all old-school folks speak a code that loses its relevance on us newbies. Look at the language from the outside and it can seem to be gibberish at times. But hey...I'm practicing. I've made flashcards. "dickheadlosershitforbrainsgoatsuckerripoffartist!". "Winston". "Princess of Paranoia".
I'm still working on "pancakes"....

so don't be a hater, Louchie.

I wonder if we just set the record for 'Most Folks in One Thread At One Time.' Highest I saw it get was 11. Considering our 'Online at One Time' record is 20-something, that's pretty impressive.

Like stuffing midgets in a Volkswagon.

Sorry, Lambie.
I edited the post you quoted.
Your post got in before mine because of my dinosaur
dialup.
Scroll back up and see.

FI!
That would be Fuckin' Internet.
Invoked to show the miscommunication was do
to the method of transmission and its
inherent and numerous limitations.

Yeah, Doc, nuthin' draws the love like a fight.