Kind of.

Please continue.

As the person who probably has the least to do with this than anyone, but is going to post anyway, I'd have to respectively disagree.

Everyone agrees that the liquor produced was good, tastey, and sellable. That is not in contention here. The argument arose about why there would not be a continuing ongoing professional relationship.

One good absinthe does not negate weekend from hell.

And while an artist might produce something noble, it usually takes a professional to reproduce successfully something commercial. LDF is running a business, not a babysitting service. If potential partners cannot act like adults, come to work sober, and do their job, why should they be considered for the job?

It shouldn't matter what someone has gone through that week. If he/they/she/it can't behave like a responsible adult, they need to respectfully call in sick for work. Especially around flammables.

Personally, I don't quite get the bitterness for those of us (not including myself, I don't make shite, but I do consider Ted, Peter, Oxy, Ian etc to be "of us") that have managed to make a living out of a once ephemeral hobby. It is not like they are the Walmart or Pol Pot of Absinthe or anything. Since I know several would have loved to have their piece of the commercial pie it just ends up sounding like sour grapes. If I had been able to make money without being evil off of FeeVerte.net, I certainly would have. As it was, the drama, manipulation and continual betrayal was not worth the heartache at any price. I'd love to see ya'll stop drawing invisible lines in the sand.

And am I the only one to notice that P-N-B registered his inflammatory handle just days after returning from the love-fest that was supposedly the making of Artisinale nearly a year ago? What was that about?

Love,
Kallisti


P.S. Sixela, please proof and get back to me with your edits

Glad to see you here princess!


Haven't noticed before, but now...

Coincedence.

...and you would have been welcome to every penny.
There's nothing wrong with profit. duh, we all have to live.

However, as Absinthist pointed out, there is a difference between profiting and profiteering (no, I'm not pointing fingers). There's also many ways to do business.

Everyone's on their high horse right now. We'll see who can ride and who can't as the layers of drama unfold.

Just for my understanding
We're talking about L'Artisanale here, so who made money/profit on it? Nobody.
Period.

I don't know what were talking about... exactly.

I wasn't talking about L'Artisinale per se.

No disagreement there.



They shouldn't be considered for the job, but I never got the impression that Eric showed up drunk and didn't do his job. I'm sure things didn't go smoothly, but what can one expect when it's one's first time doing something? I doubt Ted's first run at Combier went like it was on rails. When somebody goes spreading innuendo about a failed relationship with a potential business partner and how they showed up drunk and didn't do their job (I'm assuming someone whose name starts with a P relayed that info?), wouldn't that be the sour grapes you're speaking of?



I don't get the bitterness either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making money off of absinthe. I congratulate Peter and Oxy and other vendors for their success in doing so. If anything, they've raised the bar for selling absinthe. Previously we had FSC and Absinthe24 telling us all sorts of crapsinthe was good absinthe, but LDF's standards appear to be higher and classier. I'm even fine with people selling Oil Mixes, as they make the real quality absinthes all that much better by comparison. But it just seems odd to me that there's so much finger pointing and resentment when the end result was an impressive product that was all the more impressive given that it was made by someone completely new to the large scale distilling process.

.
Nope they're not, that's what ABG was trying to be.

I have no problem with what you've said. At the end of the day the resentful attitudes we've seen doesn't matter to me personally, but I'm not surprised at the backlash those attitudes have provoked on both sides. I've worked for people who make Genghis Khan seem like Mr. Rogers, so I guess I just don't understand what was so horrendously bad about the L'Artisinale project that has produced so much sour grapes, since as far as I can tell nobody was that big of a monster. Crazy out of control drunk and silly yes (which one of us is not at times?), but not brutally evil or totally incompetent enough to warrant such resentment as we've seen evidence of.

Finally, at the end of day, here at Jupiter, right interpretation comes along. Time to celebrate, aliens and Earthlings can co-exist.

Discounting the obvious fact that we are hardly in a state of emergency with our luxury booze, please define unreasonable profit? This is still very much a niche market, and none of this stuff is mass produced. In fact, it is produced by people who are supposed to be friends of yours, and a few indulgent frenchmen and women, toiling over hot stills. By hand.

In the end the price will be what the market can bear. If you assholes would stop buying so much high priced booze, Peter would have to sell his mansion... oh wait, he doesn't own a mansion. He has an (albeit cool) apartment in a working class neighborhood in Paris. I know the like, I lived in the equivalent in SF. There's usually piss on the doorstep and hoes on the corner.

There are no sour grapes. 95% of the stress and bitterness during the L'Artisanale distillation was amongst the group, not between the group and Peter (or myself). Eric was under great stress, through absolutely no fault of his own, a stress that Peter did everything possible to mitigate, something which I've no doubt Eric himself would confirm. But the overall result was the conclusion that, excellent as Eric's absinthe was, it wouldn't be financially or practically viable to repeat the exercise. "Artistry" plays a part in commercial distillation, but only a part. There are many other practical issues equally or more important. A distillery is not like an artist's studio. It's like an industrial engineering environment.

The bitterness against Peter absolutely wasn't a feature of the week, as least as far as I saw. It seems to have gradually grown in the last 12 months, fanned it seems by people like Artemis, who weren't there, weren't involved, weren't consulted, don't know what happened, and have self-serving agendas of their own.

The fact that Grim registered his puppet within a week or two of returning from the week is extraordinary. I was under the impression that Peter and I had gone out of our way to extend a sincere hand of friendship. Perhaps this was something just happening in our minds, not Grim's.

I was in no way indicating that Peter is profiteering (I noted that before). I was pointing out that making a profit is NOT a bad thing. Profiteering on the other hand is dispicable.

...and once again. The date of the puppet was coincedence.

Ah haH! Ah hAHA HAAAAA!!!

Oh, that's a good one.

It is?

No xit Dinky?
When you register under the name "Peter Nathan-Brew" just a week after the gang bang week?

Eggs broken, omelette made, notes made about how to make the making of omelette easier next time, hopefully everyone learned something about how to do it and how not to do it. It's good to know there are no sour grapes, as I would prefer everybody remained friendly in some manner, so that way there's not brains splattered all over everyone's computer monitors again in the near future.

As for Grim's puppet, who knows what the intended purpose was for it? It may have even been intended as a joke. Remember that some puppets here were assigned by the management at one point as part of a joke (might have been during the 23rd time Jack broke the lounge, I don't recall), I'm not sure if that was one of them. Not saying one way or the other, I just wouldn't read into it that it was betrayal at that early juncture.

Then the management should probably say so. Otherwise we may think that Grim is even more of a dick than we currently do.

This post needs an emoticon: Cheers up the place a bit.

How come the lounge still has the most poorly rendered emoticons on the internet? There's been years, and years of progress.

OK, benefit of the doubt then, why not after all.

Mostly we don't like emoticons. I, however like my new signature.

If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't make the post I made at Fee Verte, because although I'll never be convinced it harmed anyone, no good could come of it either. It was just shit stirring.

As for this thread, I had no idea about any of it until just before I made my post yesterday. This shit goes on for 300 or more posts, nothing to do with me, and Oxy deletes most of his posts in the mess, but the one he leaves up for posterity, after 300 posts or more, mentions me over and over. Should have let it be, mate.

And Sixela, I didn't insult you, I described you. When you've made several hundred posts to counteract the several hundred that have led me to believe you're an overbearing, narcissistic asshole, or when I meet you in person and find you only play one on the Internet, maybe I'll change my mind.

Serious?

The point was not that anyone was harmed, rather that long standing rules were broken, and trust compromised. As you pointed out, you helped write the rules, which makes it that much more befuddling.

S'ok now. It's all blow'd up.

That's what separates us. I believe you're not an overbearing arsehole; you just play one on TV (and the internets).

Naah - even though I think we might actually get along just fine in RL, I doubt he'd ever acknowledge it online even after meeting me.

The puppet Grim used was created for participation in another hidden from the public area of this forum. There are many sections you have to earn the right to enter, some of you are very aware of this.

There's also a hidden from view section for mods, one for Jockeys, core crew, for discussing commercial ventures and one in which only Cros and I are members. I think that's all of them.

It's no big deal. We just thought only allowing puppets in one section would be a novel approach.

Everyone satisfied?

Oh, I believe that.
I was more surprised by the self-disavowing character judgment.
That shit's so absurd even unicorns don't believe in it.

Of course not. Do you think I like holes being punched in my perfectly fine conspiracy theories?

It happens to the best of them.

Ok.
Is everyone EXCEPT Sixer satisfied?

But Artemis, that's because it's all about you. After all, everything is .

Don't try to use slang in an idiom you're not familiar with, pardner.

I'm glad you made that post. I'm sorry things have come to this. I've known you for years, and I'm indebted to you for all your translation and other work, hundreds of hours given freely and generously. But I felt I had to make a stand on the issue of confidentiality, and I was surprised - still am - that you of all people wouldn't understand the seriousness of the situation, and the point of principle. If the roles had been reversed - if Peter had quoted you, not vice versa - and if he'd then said "I'll never be convinced it harmed anyone, ... It was just shit stirring" would you feel "well that's OK then"? I doubt it. I never asked for an apology to punish you, or to embarrass you, or to score points. I asked for one to establish a principle, that confidentiality is an absolute, unconditional thing, or it's nothing. I knew that given the special nature of the private forum, if we didn't establish that principle, shit would happen. Well unfortunately we didn't, and it duly did.

No doubt I could have gone about things differently - more diplomatically, less aggressively. And if I had, I might have succeeded, rather than, in the end, failing as I did. It's water under the bridge now.

I went through my posts in the thread, to edit any gratuitous references to you, but the first part of this thread has been locked, so I can't. As far as I can see though I only really used your name extensively in one of my many posts here.

You're wrong about Sixela incidentally.

It's inevitable.

Oh Dinky. It's your eastern schoolboy charm I
can't deny. If you want to call it a coincidence
then I can call it a convenience.

I think that's close enough to an agreement.

I thought the project was being financed?

My bad.

See, it's better already.

Man, when xit
gets smeared
in my xorts, it
comes out in
the wash quicker
than this.

No, that's not what she's saying Grim. Just leave it alone. Let's stop talking about the whole fuckin' week.

People who weren't there, don't know what happened, and neither even it seems do the people who were there - we were existing in multiple realities, following different narratives. Sort of like a Tarantino movie, only with a lot more violence.

Like life.

Everyone's in their
own reality.

Hey, that's not a HeadKernel™!
Is that a LiverSnap©?

Um, could be,
...

On a 'cuz.

More like everyone's in their own falsality.

I don't pack
a sock in my
jock.

Speak for yourself.

I just keep checking in to see who's gonna pop up next.

Wolfgang?
Sonopie?
Crissypuss?

Ha!

I came home from
work thinkin' the
waters had calmed
and hit "View New
Posts" and I've been
xitting here for 2 hours.

I like the part where the giant serpent bursts
up through the warehouse floor and Big Mango is
riding in a green stone chariot. His wild white flowing
beard is flicking poison darts at the boys, his eye shooting
flames at the open vat of fresh distillate. Oxy draws his
glock and is ready to open fire, Peter pulls out
his trusty cutlass. POW SLUICE! Mango down, the
snakes head hits the floor... But wait there's
movement! Where's Grim?

Bloody and covered in bile out of the serpents neck
slides Grim, "were you looking for this?" He holds
in his hand a wet copy of The Protocols of
the Elders of WINE wherein the truth lies...

Time for me
to get off the
pot.

I need a drink.

Other than booze?

There's something else?

I recommend
battery acid for
my friend from
Jupiter.