Was anyone else deeply affected by this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4146010/


What makes this so different for me... in relation to the countless other abduction/murders is that there will forever be recorded a slice of the instant that traverses the line between life and death.

Can you imagine being the parents... knowing that the sliver of time that so destructively changed the course of ones life is forever there.

I think that's worse than having a child missing that's later discovered murdered.

Forever viewed the outcome will never change...


Never.

At least they caught the guy right away. Of course it would have helped if he hadn't slipped through the cracks of the legal system in the first place...

It must be unimaginably horrid for the parents to be able to see the exact moment when their daughter was taken... powerless to stop it...

Of course it would have helped if he hadn't slipped through the cracks of the legal system in the first place...



You're sooooo right.


That's the part that really doesn't make sense.

I used to be pretty much for the rehabilitation of criminals... I taught a weekly art class in prison for a year on a voluntary basis... all out of my own pocket.

$1500.00 spent... it made me feel good but you know the thing I heard the most?

"I'm innocent"

"I didn't do it..."

No one was guilty, they just got caught... to some degree I understand that.

I'm 6 years older than when I did that and my mind has grown a bit more rigid.

I don't have much faith in human effort anymore.

The acts that you commit, no matter how small or big, become a very integral part of your being and to some degree... you need that to exist.

I'm not sure if anyone follows that.

It's hard to explain...

It goes with the old saying... "Once a / Always a"

Perhaps it's a bad state of mind to be in but it just seems this shit happens way too much...






I'm done now...

That had to be one of the most heart breaking things I have ever seen. How do people like this come into being? It is beyond words.

Rehabilitation for someone who won't admit their problem (even to themselves) is impossible. A lot of those people gave up on themsleves along time ago. They lack the integrity to see their own mistakes and correct themselves.

"The acts that you commit, no matter how small or big, become a very integral part of your being and to some degree... you need that to exist."

This makes sense, but it doesn't end there. Everyone has the ability to choose to move from those points in one direction or the other. They either grow from it or atrophy. Just a part of life, so don't give up on human effort just yet. If "Once a / Always a" was true, then there wouldn't be anyone in this world who could say that they've kicked a bad habit. (whatever that may be)

Seriously... do people really kick bad habits or do they manifest their addictions into something else?

"Seriously... do people really kick bad habits or do they manifest their addictions into something else?"

Probably what happened to one Joseph P. Smith. Though that goes a little beyond the realm of a bad habit to seriously sick.

I see it as a work in progress with self control being essential. I don't see people as being static and unchangeable. Addictions often become manifest into something else, but is it a lesser addiction or is it more twisted than the one before? I'd say that at the very least a lesser addiction is a step in the right direction, and a sign of improvement.

(sorry if I sound preachy, it's not my intent)

Fluffy, I don't know how you avoid sounding preachy if you're talking about someone's soul and it's redemption.

You can force yourself to quit doing evil shit for a little while. If you don't fill that hole with something worthwhile, you'll be back at it and even more besides.

That goes for heavy duty evil mother fuckers like joseph smith as well as the smaller shit that each of us do.

I'm not talking about soul redemption. I'm talking about how I see people growing in general. And yeah, I guess I do sound preachy. Oops

In my long and boring mgmt.
career, and recently in my personal
life, I've told people that I don't
give a fuck anymore what they
say, their actions will be what I
go by. Words don't mean a fuckin'
thing on a very basic level.
Luckily, almost none of us live on
a very basic level.

I almost got into a fight at work
tonight because I threw away some
shitty french fries.
It ended w/a 5 lb. bag of spuds being
fired at my head from about a yard
away. Luckily, I'm old but I'm quick.
Fucker missed and just caught my
shoulder.
I looked like this
for a bit of the row.
Anyway, that skank I beefed w/lives
on a very basic level.
And I'll always deal w/his actions,
never his words, because he's not
functioning in society, just his ego.
Or maybe I'll get the chance to beat
the fuckin' shit outtah him.
That'll be my action.

Antenna fight!!!
You've got a long arm advantage.

In the parking ramp.
After work tomorrow.
Drinks on me in the Steelgaarden
after.
Blood on that cunt immediately.

Sweeet! Go get em! I'll drink a bloody mary made with vodka and that guys blood. Garnished with an antenna of course.

And his eyeball instead of an olive.

I don't think preachy is a bad thing. I mean you have to find a standard outside yourself to be able to grow

If you want to kick a bad habit you need to find a good habit to put in it's place or it becomes a simple act of self denial that is doomed to fail.

Mayor--
If you end up with a body on your hands, let me know.
I studied forensic anthro.
I know all about getting rid of things.

You can only replace habits?
Nah.
You can drop 'em.
I used to smoke weed like a fiend.
Quit cold turkey one day.
Didn't replace it w/nuttin'.
Just went back to not being stoned
all the time and being alive.

They say a friend is someone who'll help you move.

A real friend is someone who'll help you move a body.

I'd like to see Abby move a body.

Sounds like the new habbit was abstinence, and revelry of kicking a habbit.

Um, no.
Went back to where I was.

ummm.. ignorant, or lost?

Calling abstinence a habit is silly.
Unless you are fighting a demonic
addiction daily/hourly/minute to
minute.
I quit and moved on.
Couldn't say the same thing about
booze though.
That would be a fight beyond the
occasional 3 day-3 week break.

For some, it might be...


One day at a time (as the fools say).

This kind of stuff bothers me... my son is what most people would consider cute. It is hard striking a balance between fearing this and living life.

What good would it do me to keep him penned up? Nothing good for him, I guarentee. I worry about shit like this but don't let it rule me. I just keep a good eye on him in public. Am I worried this kind of shit will happen? Not really. But only a fool is certain.

I tend to agree with the replacing bad habits with other activities thing... that it helps to do something more productive instead. At least to get your mind off of whatever you're trying to kick.

But that leads me to something else... Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like they aren't really living life... more like living a diversion? Always busy, always trying to find something to occupy / kill time.

Hitting is not right and hitting back isn't right either. The only way to change the world is to treat every one with love and respect and act like you think they deserve it, even when they don't.
As far as living a life that is just a diversion, consider how short life is , how little time is left , living is urgent.
The French have a saying , " the less I do the more I get done"
A freind told me Ann Franks book starts with a quote "in spite of all that has happened I still believe that people are basically good".
Life is full of contradictions.

Your life is how you live it.
Whether it's what you meant to
do or not.

Fluff, there's still a part of me that still wants to believe what you’re saying because for a long time I really believed that. It's just that from what I've seen lately... what I said about how one addiction manifests... that seems to be more and more visible.

In the case of Joe Smith, he was a drug addict who was arrested numerous times for such problems.

The article stated that he had recently separated from his girlfriend.

This sort of works into the pattern I talked about, though it's hypothetical on my part. Someone with a problem slowly finds that he can't feed his addiction, whether it's by his own means or not... the control slips away. Once a person realizes that his or her control of their desires is gone... they may find other ways of manifesting that control. Joe Smith's girlfriend was gone... more control lost...

How many times do you read about a murder of an ex...

Joe Smith maybe picks up a sexual addiction, or maybe he just feels a total loss of control period. Once a thought enters your mind to do something, it's very hard for you to completely forget it.

His thoughts turn to young girls...


Related but not... here's Sting, who I believe to be quite an intellectual type:


Once that you've decided on a killing
First you make a stone of your heart
And if you find that your hands are still willing
Then you can turn a murder into art

There really isn't need for bloodshed
You just do it with a little more finesse
If you can slip a tablet into someone's coffee
Then it avoids an awful lot of mess

It's murder by numbers one two three
It's as easy to learn as your ABC

Now if you have a taste for this experience
And you're flushed with your very first success
Then you must try a twosome or a threesome
And you'll find your conscience bothers you much less

Because murder is like anything you take to
It's a habit - forming need for more and more
You can bump off every member of your family
And anybody else you find a bore

Because it's murder by numbers one two three
It's as easy to learn as your ABC

Now you can join the ranks of the illustrious
In history's great dark hall of fame
All our famous killers were industrious
At least the ones that we all know by name

But you can reach the top of your profession
If you become the leader of the land
For murder is the sport of the elected
And you don't need to lift a finger of your hand

Pick up any one of John Douglas' books... Mind hunter, Obsession etc. It'll give you some insight into the minds of violent criminals. I read them all years ago whilst working towards that almighty forensic psych. degree.

Douglas might not be the worlds foremost expert, but he does let the newbie in on some interesting stuff.

Careful though, you might scare yourself.


Who amongst us would/could kill if it weren't for social constructs? <-- don't answer that.

I tend to divide these things into two groups. Things that give pleasure and things that make you happy.

Things that give pleasure would be a nice drink, a movie, driving a nice car.

Things that make you happy would be spending time with a friend who's having troubles. Helping your brother move. Spending time with your wife and kids.

Happiness is much more complex, and sometimes isn't even pleasant but it gives meaning and purpose to your life.

People run into problems when they trade happiness for pleasure. It's an easy trade with a lot of short term benefits, but in the end it leaves you feeling dead inside.

It's a lot harder to trade pleasure for happiness. It requires a lot of investment of your heart and soul. This is what I meant by filling the space an addiction used to occupy. If you simply deny yourself pleasure without building happiness you don't accomplish anything but creating more misery for yourself.

How's that for Sunday morning preaching.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

In a society that pushes pleasure over happiness, material accumulation for it's own sake, gratuitious sex/viloence (the two are often presented as interchangable), it isn't suprising that horrible crimes happen.

What is suprising and an affirmation of our better nature is that a bunch of seemingly pleasure seeking absinthe obesessed drunks on a board like this are as deep thinking, philosophical, spiritually deep and introspective as you folks.

It gives one hope.

The likelihood of a kid being abducted by a stranger is small. These cases are vivid, though, because they are so incredibly tragic. Because of the vividness, the media tend to overreport on them, and probably contribute to a general perception that kids are in far greater danger than they really are.

The most recent data I have on hand are from 1998. The probablity of a child being abducted by a stranger at that time was 1 in 700,000. In contrast, the probability of a child dying in a car crash was 100 times that.

It never hurts to be an attentive parent. There is really no reason to be ruled by fear, though — you're right. I hope the information helps.

Interesting numbers Peeps and a much needed 'scientific' perspective on things of that nature.

Thank you.

You too Fluff... thanks!

We've been on-topic for too long on this topic...

Doesn't it look like he's saying "WEE-OOO"?

IT DOES!!! Reminds me of that awful movie Kung Pao enter the fist. WEE-OOO I can actually hear it now... scary.

Looks more like "Emu, emu."

Perhaps the little Alien guy is conjuring now Peeps...

http://www.emich.edu/

Emu?

HA! I thought I was looking in the mirror for a second!

EEEK


Don't do that again.

It's scary!

Emus are some scragly lookin birds... I wonder what they taste like?

Like Ostrich.

Apparently, not like chicken.
Emu...the other red meat.

http://www.emuofvirginia.com/cook.htm

JESUS H CHRIST

If he moved to Oregon he probably would get what he wants.